I agree Sally's idea, mortgaging your buildings to get a loan and you still can use the building to do production, sales, researching. But you cannot sell and expand (maybe can, but to make calculation simple, better not) the mortgaged buildings before you settle the loan.
By the way, everyone hopes to get the bank into game, but from economics point of view, bank is not just as simple as giving loan and sell your buildings if you cant settle the loan. If you want a bank because it makes kapilands more "economics simulation" then you are totally wrong.
First, where the bank money from? In real life, mostly saving from citizens. In game, the virtual citizens must have saving function, so they provides constant money source for bank to lend to players. Another source should be from players when purchasing NPC products OR simply save the money in bank.
Second, where the virtual citizen money from? The first and only salary when you hired them? Definitely not enough for a bank to lend. Maybe what Azer had said before, the production cost as salary. But what if there is too few players to do production at this moment, making the savings from virtual citizens too low, so the bank has insufficient money to lend?
Third and last, how much virtual citizens should spend and save? Interest rate comes into play. Interest rate should then affect the demands of products and how much savings will get for bank. It should be dynamic so the boom and recession will happen in game, more fun. But let's face the fact, it is absolutely not this version and not easy to implement too.
Maybe you will say "hey, why too complicated, just make it as simple as take the loan, mortgage building and players can save the money, that's all" But I can tell you, a bank that cannot play a role of rolling the money among Bank -> Players -> Virtual Citizens -> Bank, is not a real bank. And it wont make the game more "economics simulation" but increase the workload of programmers.
That's my thinks. Sorry for my bad English.
Return/Redevelopment of the Banking System
Moderator: moderators
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Mr Right wrote
Not virtual citizens, that would make it even more complicated.
There are a lot of players buying from the NPC which generates a lot of caps and it can also be possible to save money in the bank and get some interest.
When you take a loan you also will PAY interest which will generate more money for the bank as well.
But I do see your point, it could get difficult when people with a lot of cash start saving huge amounts of money and so they will get a lot of money back in interest.
If at the same time many people wanted to take a big loan the bank could go bankrupt.
But on the other hand, the bank doesn't have to simulate real life economics, (soon we might be handing out bonuses to the board of directors of the bank
) it is just an extra feature in the game to make things more interesting, many things in this game are not correct if you compare it to real economics. (and it doesn't have to be does it?)
So, if players are able to take loans and save a certain amount of their money in the bank that would be enough as far as I am concerned.
To avoid the bank going bankrupt, you could put a limit to the amount of money that can be saved based on Fixed Assets.
Or am I putting it to simple now?
Well you answered your own question, the money should come from players when purchasing NPC products or from players saving the money in the bank.First, where the bank money from? In real life, mostly saving from citizens. In game, the virtual citizens must have saving function, so they provides constant money source for bank to lend to players. Another source should be from players when purchasing NPC products OR simply save the money in bank.
Not virtual citizens, that would make it even more complicated.
There are a lot of players buying from the NPC which generates a lot of caps and it can also be possible to save money in the bank and get some interest.
When you take a loan you also will PAY interest which will generate more money for the bank as well.
But I do see your point, it could get difficult when people with a lot of cash start saving huge amounts of money and so they will get a lot of money back in interest.
If at the same time many people wanted to take a big loan the bank could go bankrupt.
But on the other hand, the bank doesn't have to simulate real life economics, (soon we might be handing out bonuses to the board of directors of the bank
) it is just an extra feature in the game to make things more interesting, many things in this game are not correct if you compare it to real economics. (and it doesn't have to be does it?)So, if players are able to take loans and save a certain amount of their money in the bank that would be enough as far as I am concerned.
To avoid the bank going bankrupt, you could put a limit to the amount of money that can be saved based on Fixed Assets.
Or am I putting it to simple now?
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Do not get me wrong, I am not against the idea, I am just point out adding bank with simple feature such as loan for players is not enough to simulate real life economics better as the author of this thread wrote:
. Do you agree?
But I do agree you Sally. It doesnt need to be too close to real life, it just need to be fun. But i dont see any new fun if just add simple bank into game. Because the game should play patiently, slowly grow up and expand. Loan really not so important in kapilands. The real fun of kapilands is the management of supply chains...Kapilands, being a economics simulation as the game trumpets in its ads, should bring the experience as close to the real world as is feasible.
. Do you agree?-
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yes I agree.
That is the basic idea of this game.
But having said that, I still think it would ad even more fun to the game if you were able to loan and save.
When I started this game I also took loans every now and then, and for me that was a great solution to get some extra cash when I really needed it.
Paying it back in time was an extra challenge which made the gameplaying more intense since I was VERY motivated to find ways to make more profit, and trying to find ways to make profit FAST in order to pay off my debt.
It was nervewrecking sometimes, as the clock was ticking, but in a good way.
At least that is my experience with the bank.
When it works it is a very nice learning experience.
But ofcourse that is only my opinion.
That is the basic idea of this game.
But having said that, I still think it would ad even more fun to the game if you were able to loan and save.
When I started this game I also took loans every now and then, and for me that was a great solution to get some extra cash when I really needed it.
Paying it back in time was an extra challenge which made the gameplaying more intense since I was VERY motivated to find ways to make more profit, and trying to find ways to make profit FAST in order to pay off my debt.
It was nervewrecking sometimes, as the clock was ticking, but in a good way.
At least that is my experience with the bank.
When it works it is a very nice learning experience.
But ofcourse that is only my opinion.
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Agreed we cant simulate a full economy its imposable to even list the number of items amiable in an real economy at one time or allow for inventiveness within the product constraints of the game but we can add to the experience and overall make the game more enjoyable if we can get a banking system going even if it wont fulfil the true workings of a bank. More than anything I would like to hear from someone within the games development loop to see what the actual limits are. Perhaps a mod can facilitate that nudge nudgeI am just point out adding bank with simple feature such as loan for players is not enough to simulate real life economics
The best way I can see of working Mr Right
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I've only just browsed this thread so forgive any repeats
my ideas
1. Possibly setting up a process from which a players credit rating could be found out, for example taking the players last 3 weeks of income and then using that to generate a loan amount and payment schedual that would work for them.
2. allowing players to file for bankruptcy, this would involve certain aspects of the business being sold off to pay for the loan amount and then a period of time where certain aspects of the game wouldnt be aviable to them.
what you lot think?
DP
my ideas
1. Possibly setting up a process from which a players credit rating could be found out, for example taking the players last 3 weeks of income and then using that to generate a loan amount and payment schedual that would work for them.
2. allowing players to file for bankruptcy, this would involve certain aspects of the business being sold off to pay for the loan amount and then a period of time where certain aspects of the game wouldnt be aviable to them.
what you lot think?
DP
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I have a suggestion. I have worked for a bank in real life dealing with mortgages and loans so most of this is based off how UK banks work and trying to apply it to the game so there may be some plot holes that need to be worked out.
Stocks and Shares
I will deal with stocks and shares first. Currently there are 5? Stocks and shares you can buy? I have an idea that could benefit the game.
Rather than the 5 stocks and shares how about giving every company the chance to go PLC! That
Stocks and Shares
I will deal with stocks and shares first. Currently there are 5? Stocks and shares you can buy? I have an idea that could benefit the game.
Rather than the 5 stocks and shares how about giving every company the chance to go PLC! That
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Hi, welcome. Sorry for lack of emotes/logical order im just getting it down quick
Its good to hear from an 'insider' in the financial world. I will just run though some pitfalls in stock/loans you may not be aware of most are easily fixable.
Stocks
The most a co. can put out MUST be 49% of its stockholdings simply because I could buy out any beginners with a few k and then I would own another acc? Or control so much of the income that they would never have the opportunity to expand.
This brings me to another problem, the main idea behind floating a co it to gain capital and expand quickly and then pay off over time we must have a buyback system where the player is able to buy back the shares for their market value rather than a large player simply buying a huge amount in any co then refusing to release the shares.
We also have the issue of AWOL players who get board and leave with others having spent millions on speculating on its future. There is 3 way I know of to deal with this. The investor takes the loss with the profits and no more said. The co is gov backed so all shares revert to equal after 1 month of inactivity and then the player can pay back the gov if he or she comes back later. or the co is broken up after a few months and investors get a percentage of sales based on on shares (note A though is that builds/assets could be sold at action like they do in RW so 1 month or so and the recoup is whatever is paid for them, that way a 3k build wont got for 10m)
The only major concern I would have is a tendency for the middle-large players to begin to pour money into other COs to avoid leveling rather than expand their own co. This is not bad per say but isent how the game is meant to be played. A company could, in theory become a full trader who is without sizable builds but rather invests hugely in others and such have very small time in-game, a large problem for games such as this one.
Stocks would def be a great way to have the game evolve and any player who doesn't wish to sell or buy simply doesn't and players as it the system doesn't exist so I cant see a problem there, good suggestion but in case Sally is prowling I really haven't checked on how this has fared in the past. :whoops:
Loans
The original problem with the loans was defaults and plp couldn't get enough cash to pay them back.
I have 2 ideas on this also:
1) Max loan is 50% of FA and the max interest is a further 60-80% of that. So take out a loan of 50m and the total interest you can get is 30-40m extra. So even if a player defaults he or she still has something to go off or rebuild.
2) Again the concept of auctions, the builds of a defaulted player can be auctioned off in a special forum or market and if no one bids then it is sold for norm cost price. The auctions run for 2 weeks and in the end the player makes an average profit so he or she can hopefully get back to somewhere he or she was. (The player loses the FA value of the builds but they will sell for far higher than this in open auction.) Max loan amounts may or may not apply so its failry easy to work with and change.
I hope I have done your post justice please respond with any additions/ideas im just happy its goten back to being a talked about topic. Your ideas have merit and I hope we can progress with them
H
Its good to hear from an 'insider' in the financial world. I will just run though some pitfalls in stock/loans you may not be aware of most are easily fixable.
Stocks
The most a co. can put out MUST be 49% of its stockholdings simply because I could buy out any beginners with a few k and then I would own another acc? Or control so much of the income that they would never have the opportunity to expand.
This brings me to another problem, the main idea behind floating a co it to gain capital and expand quickly and then pay off over time we must have a buyback system where the player is able to buy back the shares for their market value rather than a large player simply buying a huge amount in any co then refusing to release the shares.
We also have the issue of AWOL players who get board and leave with others having spent millions on speculating on its future. There is 3 way I know of to deal with this. The investor takes the loss with the profits and no more said. The co is gov backed so all shares revert to equal after 1 month of inactivity and then the player can pay back the gov if he or she comes back later. or the co is broken up after a few months and investors get a percentage of sales based on on shares (note A though is that builds/assets could be sold at action like they do in RW so 1 month or so and the recoup is whatever is paid for them, that way a 3k build wont got for 10m)
The only major concern I would have is a tendency for the middle-large players to begin to pour money into other COs to avoid leveling rather than expand their own co. This is not bad per say but isent how the game is meant to be played. A company could, in theory become a full trader who is without sizable builds but rather invests hugely in others and such have very small time in-game, a large problem for games such as this one.
Stocks would def be a great way to have the game evolve and any player who doesn't wish to sell or buy simply doesn't and players as it the system doesn't exist so I cant see a problem there, good suggestion but in case Sally is prowling I really haven't checked on how this has fared in the past. :whoops:
Loans
The original problem with the loans was defaults and plp couldn't get enough cash to pay them back.
I have 2 ideas on this also:
1) Max loan is 50% of FA and the max interest is a further 60-80% of that. So take out a loan of 50m and the total interest you can get is 30-40m extra. So even if a player defaults he or she still has something to go off or rebuild.
2) Again the concept of auctions, the builds of a defaulted player can be auctioned off in a special forum or market and if no one bids then it is sold for norm cost price. The auctions run for 2 weeks and in the end the player makes an average profit so he or she can hopefully get back to somewhere he or she was. (The player loses the FA value of the builds but they will sell for far higher than this in open auction.) Max loan amounts may or may not apply so its failry easy to work with and change.
I hope I have done your post justice please respond with any additions/ideas im just happy its goten back to being a talked about topic. Your ideas have merit and I hope we can progress with them
H
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@Walker Landing: ppl dont usually fire employees in this game.....atleast wat i think
@Horizon Holdings: Previously u were allowed only to take a loan equal to 10% of your fixed assets
and abt the co. shares well u can keep a certain level where u can sell ur company shares say manager or something..... and it is only if you wish to..... and you would have to pay a certain fee as well.... another way of funding the bank here.... only thing is about the issue price how will it be decided?
@Horizon Holdings: Previously u were allowed only to take a loan equal to 10% of your fixed assets
and abt the co. shares well u can keep a certain level where u can sell ur company shares say manager or something..... and it is only if you wish to..... and you would have to pay a certain fee as well.... another way of funding the bank here.... only thing is about the issue price how will it be decided?
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No that is true they dont. But in the strange event they do it would be fun to watch there shares fall through the floor and go into minus numbers lol. (Thats a joke, I know they would never go into minus numbers but still, would be funny)adi2412 wrote:@Walker Landing: ppl dont usually fire employees in this game.....atleast wat i think
@Horizon Holdings: Previously u were allowed only to take a loan equal to 10% of your fixed assets
and abt the co. shares well u can keep a certain level where u can sell ur company shares say manager or something..... and it is only if you wish to..... and you would have to pay a certain fee as well.... another way of funding the bank here.... only thing is about the issue price how will it be decided?
10% of FA is a good figure.
If I were the devs I would also point out on that page that if they dont pay it in time and assets are frozen, sold etc the team are not liable for it and nothing will get done about it. The Kapi team should not be held responsible for people forgetting passwords or people being without net access for 2 weeks. In fairness if someone does forget there password or there net is down for 2 weeks it is no kapilands fault and shouldnt be expceted to rectify the situation.
Perhaps buying out companys might be a bad thing? I really dont know how to suggest that works so I would say 49% to start off with. In RL putting shares on the market can raise capital. There is another game online that invovles buying shares and yes you can buy out peoples companys.
What happens there is you take temp controll of there assets and cash. What usually happens is people strip your company down, take all the production buildings etc and hand you back this broken company. I dont think that gaining an account would be the best option really.
If they were do it that way my suggestions are;
You need at least 75% of the shares to buy another company out. Ypu could own 99% of a company and not decide to take them over. You would have to click a button to do so.
When you buy them out you have 2 options. Absorb the players assets (Reaserches, buildings etc) What you do at that point is take 75% of there assets (Random) and it hands them back there company with 25% left. Of course this would make buying very small companys to gain assets unprofitable.
The second option is pehaps they can act as a sub company. The player still runs there business however you can change there name so for example I might own walker landing and also have controll of 3 other companys I call "Walker landing apples, Walker landing Water, walker landing oil" etc. Theese divisions are run by the players and the parent company takes 25% of there income. (Ok so I can say I personally dont think take overs would be brought in. Yes it raises even more questions. What happens if someone re-sets there account etc Solution to that is the system automatically refunds there shares at the price they paid, same with if an account is deleted)
Same with companys that go Awol I guess.
To avoid the whole "Leveling avoidance issue" I personally would add share value to the leveling steps. You have X in cash + X that you paid in shares.
I must admit I didnt search but seeing as banking came up I decided to add that in.
Still think it would be a cool feature. Will it be implimented? I doubt it would be in the near future.
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doooooooooooohhhhhhhhh
I knew i should of read this before buyinh 50000 shares lol
see never trust a investment banker :-"
see never trust a investment banker :-"
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Re: doooooooooooohhhhhhhhh
Can't believe they haven't shut that down yet.uk-laptops wrote:I knew i should of read this before buyinh 50000 shares lol
see never trust a investment banker :-"
