Proposal : remove qty from Raw Material LLC (NPC)

[Guest]

Please remember that this is a game.

Even though it tries to simulate the real world, it still is a simulation. You can't apply everything thats happening in real life to a game. We've had countless debates and discussions about how different it is in real life and such, but we should remember that this is a game. The game makers have to look at it in all perspectives and decide which would be best for kapilands and its players.

We certainly don't want to get players frustrated because of insane prices, we have it in real life and at times we play a game to enjoy ourselves and forget real life for a few hours or such.

Sure these suggestions might be implemented in the future realms of kapi english but it wouldn't be advisable to do it right now when the realm has already started. The huge change might put-off people thus having fewer players and then kapi wouldn't be as fun since it is the players that we interact with that makes the game fun and challenging.

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On a different note, if I was a big player and I see steel amounts rising insanely high (without the NPC), I would pretty much just build my own mine and powerplant and expand them into around 1000m+, then start using my already large factories to produce my own steel. Its extremely cheaper to do so (and I know it since I produce steel at around 20-30 caps each) when I have the resources and funds needed. Much like real big companies do, either they do a forward shift, a backward shift or both.

Big companies have the ability to self-sustain their productions. But a lot choose not to fully do that because it wouldn't be as fun to just do everything by themselves and not gaining friends or business contacts along the way.

In the current scenario that we have, both the sides benefit. The big companies help the small companies and vice-versa. If users feel that their produced materials aren't selling as high as before, they have the opportunity to venture out into in-game products and sell to NPC stores.

The challenge is to venture into chain products that you can profit highly from NPC shops. Besides the big companies mostly use steel for expansion, so those with higher qualities can sell for a higher price because research can take some time to do.

For me just selling steel your whole life in kapi is not as enjoyable as establishing your goal in-game product. Because its really more challenging to control the demand and average prices per quality of the in-game shops than the kapi market itself. For one, not all kapi players use the forums so we can't fix our prices to up the NPC shop prices. There's always someone whose going to price lower making our time to sell longer again.

[Guest]

Absolutely, make it a free market in Europe for food, no subs or floor prices and almost every food related jobs will be abandoned, I can assure you that. Why? because wages are huge compared to those from other continents who can easily export their products to us (assuming you live in Europe), the thing you'r mentioning about Finland happens every year in most of the lands throughout Europe, tons of food are being dumped every year in foreign economies, just to protect the inside market, they have butter for cheap idd, but how are they gonna pay for it? The African farmer rather sells his butter instead of buying it

Farming wouldn't go away if subsidies were lifted, even if they were lifted unilaterally. There seems to be demand for locally produced foods. Every country have their own delicacies that are not produced elsewhere, and some of the ingredients are also local, so there is demand for specialty farming. Also, the best farming lands may very well be so profitable that they are worth farming even without subsidies. And these are only some of the possibilities.

As for the food processing industry: the demand for processed foods is not going away since they're sufficiently tasty, filling and the price is quite right: for 3 euros and 3 minutes of microwaving you get a satisfying meal without sweating over a stove for 15 to 30 minutes. If industries get their raw materials cheaper from other countries, they definitely buy from other countries, unless they're shooting for the stamp that domestic products get.

In other words, removing subsidies would not spell the death of agriculture and food processing industry.

Chronic overproduction is caused by subsidies (it's guaranteed income for the farmer, after all). And the tax payer pays twice: first for the subsidies and second for the food that is more expensive than it could be.

And that is not all. Subsidies always support inefficient production. Without subsidies, the marginal producers either go bankrupt or find another job, whereas the efficient producers innovate and improve their profit margins. Subsidies distort the development of a field, in this case agriculture. We cannot know what kind of innovations and improvements have not been developed and invented because farmers have had to spend their time and energy to learn intricacies of bureaucracy instead of using that time and energy to develop their operations and innovate. Once subsidies are in place, even the efficient and able farmer must start filling in the forms, since in many cases it is literally impossible to produce the food profitably without the subsidies.

When subsidies cause overproduction, the government tries to adjust the situation with quotas, and they are another horror: they penalize directly the efficient and able farmer, who has to either curtail his production or buy quotas from other farmers.

These are the hidden cost of subsidies, and they are horrible. The tax payer foots the whole bill: subsidies and the needlessly expensive food. The politician rakes in the goodwill: they're supporting a local industry and making sure that the consumers get their non-toxic, domestic foods...

Removing the subsidies would be a huge boon to the African farmer that you've mentioned a few times, and it would be an enormous boon to the European consumer (and everybody is a consumer, so everybody would benefit). The only people to suffer would be the farmers and food processing industries who are feeding at the public through because of policy decisions made in 1950s and even earlier.

Once political institutions are established, they gain inertia that makes it difficult to dismantle them. Interest groups gain so much from their privileges that they will always protest loudly against removing the privileges, whereas the burden on the payers (tax payers/consumers) is so diffuse that it is difficult to get anybody's gander up for these depredations. The problem with the Western political system is that almost everybody belongs to an interest group, and therefore it is to almost everybody's interest to promote this system. However, it is a false perception, since almost everybody is a net payer after all of the subsidies to all interest groups are totaled, and the only real gainers are bureaucrats and politicians who get paid for their non-productive jobs...

[Guest]

lol, but theres seems to be more quotes in this thread then all if seen but to the point. keep the npc there and everyone is happy, the point that its a steel and oil game, well thereremoved the amount of steel you need so theres less demand for it, oil put so there less demand for the general cyber bot people buying it and increase demand for other products like Leather jackets