Is that legal to operate a loan business?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:06 pm

Greeting.

Recently, I'm interested in how to increase the efficiency of property investment. While a city grow up, the ability of making money shall eventually overcome the ability of spending money. Hence, I'm looking for the opportunity to invest my surplus cash and get more in return.

I couldn't help wondering if it is legal to operate a loan business which brings advantages to both creditor and debtor?

For example, there is a new city who wishes to have more cash to grow up a little quicker. The creditor purchases 5000 pieces of wood as 224 ct from debtor. Since the NPC sell wood for 24 ct, we treat such contract to be a loan of 5000x200 = 1,000,000. Maybe one month later, the new city grows up. Debtor sells 55,000 pieces of wood for 4 ct to creditor. (24-4)x55,000 = 1,100,000 which is exact 10% interest for this debt.

I notice there is a rule of game:

§4 Cheating:
(2) Presents, credits or trades with an extreme advantage on one side are not allowed.

However, the conception of my plan it to be advantage on both side. Will that be acceptable? I'm dreaming to play a banker in Kapi-Regnum. Such mechanism shall bring better flexibility and more fun into this world.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:25 pm

I've tried this eventually and sadly.. not enough interest. The fact is that not that many new players use the forum, so it is hard to advertise these facilities to the target markets.

Besides, Banana Enterprise is doing the same with reputation objects. U might wanna ask how he is doing with it.

good luck

PK

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:15 pm

In fact, not only new cities but also big cities may need urgent cash sometimes. Such mutual help could happen in various forms.

To have too much stagnant cash is one of the major problem to big cities. A little interest is better than none... :p

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:43 am

A loan business in this game would lack one important feature of the real world and that is a way to force people to pay back or punish them if they do not.
You can say the bad reputation would control this but with the general market to buy from and the computer market to sell to I do not see that as a big factor.
The potential for many unpaid loans would exist, strongly.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:19 am

and not just unpaid due to someone trying to rip you off... but also those who begin to play the game.. then decide to just up and quit after a couple of months (if that)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:32 am

If I had to loan out money.. I'd do it under the real price of the goods. Like a real mortgage. Then they can pay the full price to buy them back or you sell the goods on the open market to realise ur money.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:21 am

(2) Presents, credits or trades with an extreme advantage on one side are not allowed. If one of these things is detected the account in question will be deleted.

loan is the same thing like a credit.

to sell wood by 200cT it is a extreme advantage - so you will be deleted. You can try to buy status symbols/coins ... from other players an sell it back Later with a minimum of profit. but this is only possible in the range of market prices.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:29 am

Ithaka wrote:
(2) Presents, credits or trades with an extreme advantage on one side are not allowed. If one of these things is detected the account in question will be deleted.
loan is the same thing like a credit

I'd read that rule thoroughly in one sentence. Credits with extreme advantage to one side are not allowed. If the providing and receiving of credit is taking place on reasonable terms. For example:

City A sells wood to City B @ 20 cT ... no problem. but behind the scenes it is a loan.

Then City B has gained cash, however they have lost the opportunity to expand their buildings.

City A on the other hand, when they return the wood to get 24cT back, gain 4[ct] from the entire trade.. but they sold back the opportunity to construct buildings to city B.

i.e... there are no extreme advantages involved.

similarly, if I need casks but I have a surplus of Iron I can exchange these goods with another trader in a reasonable ratio. But here, I have to be careful about the prices paid even though net cash exchange might be zero.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:48 am

as long prices are in the range of market prices there will be no problems - nobody could say, if it is a loan or not.

its like coin traders - they buy coins cheaper than they sell them - its like a loan in my eyes...

you are not allowed to sayat the board that you giving loans - i know it from german server, where people would like to buy status symbols from people needing money.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:37 pm

I think the term used: "range" is all relevant.

If you are making or able to make a lot of money, then your concept of range will be much broader than say from the perspective of someone who is not able to make a lot of money in one day.

I would expect that this 'rule' has quite a bit of buoyancy.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:57 pm

A lot of buoyancy more like

In truth, as one of the game administrators I've often asked a very similar question myself in regards to what is considered as cheating.

In general the primary product I look for when looking at cheater reports is Wood, Stone and Tools.
(Quality 1 Stone cannot be sold)

If these products are sold in a large ratio (I've seen some Wood sold at over 1k a piece) then it's almost certainly detected as cheating, and is dealt with accordingly.

On any other product there is no established price - The market is constantly fluctuating. Some Q2 Benches have been sold in the past few days at over 3,000 each; War Horses have been sold for as much as 18,000 each.

Most of these come under a "Noticeable Transactions" category, although MOST are overlooked unless it's trading between two players on the same IP, or an NPC sold produce.

If you are planning on a large loan then a bit of extra security could be to contact me with full details of the loan. I can then leave a note in an Internal Section so we had some reference as to what the purpose of the transaction is - if detected.

Of course try to keep the prices as reasonable as possible; Don't sell products for 0.50 for example if they are really worth a few thousand. I believe the noticeable threshold for Wood & Stone is 18 cT, and higher than 24 cT; but buying 10,000 from one user for 24 cT, and returning for 18 cT that's still a 60k "loan" from that player.

The threshold for coins on the other hand changes daily.

Remember however loans are made at your own risk; especially if it's for a few million. We have no way to verify if a user has repaid a loan, or not as not all transactions are recorded, and are purged after a certain amount of time.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:05 pm

Thank you for your kindly and detailed elaboration, Therian. It is great to clarify game manager's stand on the issue. Now, we all realize the rules clearer.

As my understanding, the loan behavior seems to be possible under certain criteria.

The major purpose of this thread is to find out a model where players could help each other and of course, both get advantage in the same time. To make a dual-win would be a great object that every businessman chases after.

I'll think it over carefully. Thanks again. We deeply appreciated your dedication and contribution in this world.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:47 pm

Yes, thanks Therian. This makes a lot more sense now for the game. With that bit about the IP matching as well, is also quite helpful as I was assuming that's more of what you were looking for as opposed to a fellow player of the game wanting to help out another fellow player (who probably in fact lives thousands of miles away lol)

I was more (currently with my situation) interested in this topic as it relates building sales and contacting Guild members to sell a building at a substantially reasonable price in order to help give them a bit of a boost in the game... and in turn I could probably occasionally buy products from them for reasonable (but of course not crazy cheap) prices to continue to help them and they in turn help me.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:24 am

Therian wrote: On any other product there is no established price - The market is constantly fluctuating. Some Q2 Benches have been sold in the past few days at over 3,000 each; War Horses have been sold for as much as 18,000 each.

In most of these cases this products are Questproducts - so they are expensive because of the high demand and low supply...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:41 pm

Ithaka wrote:
Therian wrote: On any other product there is no established price - The market is constantly fluctuating. Some Q2 Benches have been sold in the past few days at over 3,000 each; War Horses have been sold for as much as 18,000 each.
In most of these cases this products are Questproducts - so they are expensive because of the high demand and low supply...

well yes i have done some items of these myself and also bought some of them

why we discussing all that loan thing ... i think we can tell the mods to create a loan system ... its not hard in my eyes and we could reduce the misunderstand between cheating and loaning

And as a Punishement of not paying system can warn the player that his buildings well be sold unless he pays or take reputation points from him