Making 5.00 less profit than you wanted to is not the end of the world.Is producing power worth it?
Moderator: moderators
-
Guest
-
Guest
Sure once your worth a couple 100m 5c isent much but while your working to achieve 240k for that new mine 5c is a BIG deal 
I take a loss of 100c on my watches when I sell to players (rare) rather than selling the gold but it wont faze me as the rest will sell for a good profit. Im all for the people who dont make wardrobes/gas like everyone else but you have to apply that fabled common sense here.
The only way to change a building is sell it and rebuild in its place either to NPC or player
IN this game many people will have massive researches that you can hope to top and this makes its more profitable for you to buy of these and combine but by all means once you established and can afford to keep RCs expanding daily research anything you want from the ground up! Untill then keep your costs as small as you can and just buy the high Q stuff. Expect to expand about a third of the rate if you try and start of too quickly. For me I would just stick to TVs, its pointless trying to juggle 2 different industries whilst you are just a beginner. Personally I produce TVs, jewelry and wood but im currently trying to sell the wood side to make room for more productive items.
Just trust us for the minute, I have seen many a firm go to the dogs just because they tried to do 3 areas at once rather than raw materials or only 1, but if you do you will see the rewards twice as quickly. I dont agree fully with greed too often but he is absolutely right...
batangwaray1 - you surprise me, I though you had been around long enough to figure out steel was a dud and paying your builds was smarter!
H
I take a loss of 100c on my watches when I sell to players (rare) rather than selling the gold but it wont faze me as the rest will sell for a good profit. Im all for the people who dont make wardrobes/gas like everyone else but you have to apply that fabled common sense here. The only way to change a building is sell it and rebuild in its place either to NPC or player
IN this game many people will have massive researches that you can hope to top and this makes its more profitable for you to buy of these and combine but by all means once you established and can afford to keep RCs expanding daily research anything you want from the ground up! Untill then keep your costs as small as you can and just buy the high Q stuff. Expect to expand about a third of the rate if you try and start of too quickly. For me I would just stick to TVs, its pointless trying to juggle 2 different industries whilst you are just a beginner. Personally I produce TVs, jewelry and wood but im currently trying to sell the wood side to make room for more productive items.
Just trust us for the minute, I have seen many a firm go to the dogs just because they tried to do 3 areas at once rather than raw materials or only 1, but if you do you will see the rewards twice as quickly. I dont agree fully with greed too often but he is absolutely right...
batangwaray1 - you surprise me, I though you had been around long enough to figure out steel was a dud and paying your builds was smarter!
H
-
Guest
This game is about making money, and yes, it is true, settling for less profit is not a disaster and you will get where you want in the end anyway, only slower maybe, but you do have to realize that everything in this game is about making profit, expand, produce, sell, making profit, and so on.Pay your products. If you could sell the sub products for more than the main product, why waste money by producing the main product?
That's common sense too - if your goal is to make as much money as possible.
I take it those are the market prices of those goods, so you are essentially saying that since the combined market prices of all of the components is greater than the market price of the finished product, it isn't worth it. This might be true if all you cared about was profit, but I'd rather sacrifice some profit in order to gain *fun*, or to accomplish a goal. If I stressed out about "losing" money every time I bought toilet paper that was $0.02 more expensive than some other brand of toilet paper, or ditched something that I could (in theory) sell on Craigslist for $5, I'd never get anything done. It's not losing money unless you give money up and don't get anything in return. Just because you chose a slightly less profitable product chain does not mean you "lost" anything. By that argument, there is really only one truly profitable way to play this game, and everyone who doesn't play that way is "losing" money.Example:
Steel
Production: 15.00
2 Iron Ore x 8 = 16
5 Coal x 10 = 50
0.5 Chemicals x 15 = 7.5
200 Power x 0.27 = 54
Total Cost = 142.5
The NPC cost for unlimited steel is 135. As you can see you LOSE money to produce steel.
You're right; it just means that you spend less.Just because you produce everything yourself doesn't mean you make more money.
It is a business you are running and this is a business game, so everything you want around here costs money.
So if you make as much profit as possible you take advantage of everything you own to the max, and that is difficult sometimes but I think it is the centre goal of running a business.
If you do not think of it like that then yes, in business terms you are loosing money.
You don't make profit so you can have a lot of caps in your account, you make profit so you can use it for expansion and all the other things you want to achieve.
About the steel again: you are lucky that the prices of Iron Ore, Coal and power are low at the moment, so you would think making steel is a good option, but those prices may change, they were 15 caps a while ago, sometimes even higher.
It is not a very reliable product.
I was a steelproducer myself but I stopped producing it for that reason.
I do agree you don't "loose"by choosing a less profitable product chain, (maybe if you look at it in a broader perspective you could say that, but then we should ALL make lets say only wardrobes)
But I do think that once you have chosen that chain product you should squeeze it to get the most profit out of it as you can, that is the game, and if you don't do that then in my opinion you ARE loosing caps.
BUT..considering all of the above, the most important thing is to have fun, that is why we play a game.
Try things out, get burned, try something else, do what you like.
It is more fun to find things out for yourself and I do understand the need to go on and make steel anyway, just because you want to.
Keep peoples advice in the back of your mind but if you want to just make the damn steel!
make the damn applejuice Q3, and sell it in your beverage store for 15 caps each even though it costs you oveer 70 caps to produce. (marketprices yes.)
Just have fun and eventually you will figure things out. (or not..)
PS: When you HAVE figured things out, please tell us, so we can all enjoy the satisfaction to be patronizing and say: "we told you so"!
Last edited by Guest on 04.08.2009, 11:21, edited 1 time in total.
-
Guest
I fully agree Sally.
The game is about maximising your profits and putting those profits to good use. I would rather pay slightly over the odds for a building that would increase my production if the alternative was to leave that money sitting in my account doing nothing.
About PP's, red or green
There is no doubt that red is better..... but how much better.
I've just done a quick calculation with kapitools.
Building to max from scratch at billionair level with stones at 20, steel at 135 and wood at 70 it would take about 200 days longer with red to recover the building cost !!! unless I've done my sums wrong, which no doubt someone will point out if I have.
The game is about maximising your profits and putting those profits to good use. I would rather pay slightly over the odds for a building that would increase my production if the alternative was to leave that money sitting in my account doing nothing.
About PP's, red or green
There is no doubt that red is better..... but how much better.
I've just done a quick calculation with kapitools.
Building to max from scratch at billionair level with stones at 20, steel at 135 and wood at 70 it would take about 200 days longer with red to recover the building cost !!! unless I've done my sums wrong, which no doubt someone will point out if I have.
-
Guest
LOL.....Kestrel wrote:What does it have to do with stones, though? Iron ore and coal are 10 power + 7 water, and even if you have to buy them from the NPC, that only comes to $2.89 for each. Steel is then 7 coal + iron ($20.23) + 200 power ($34) + 0.5 chemicals. I'd have to set up the spreadsheet to find out what the chemicals wind up costing, and there's the actual production costs for all of these too, but I doubt it works out to $90 for the rest. Unless you just mean that stones are more profitable?Horizon Holdings wrote:Steel is unprofitable because of stones. In order to make the raw materials (5 coal, 2 iron) you have to sell them for at least 20ea or you lose money in respect to stones. Ergo 7x20=140, steel sells for 135...
If you can get Q0 iron+coal for 5ea then steel becomes profitable again but good luck
Lovely to see you use production cost for iron ore and coal, while using a complete wrong value for power.....
From your power value i guess you are R2 and you decided to use the water price for your power...
It sure is funny, but it does show me you have no clue.
But to continue...
You intend to go build a mine and produce iron ore without trying to make a profit??
Way to go...
If you really want to calculate this all decently:
Iron Ore: 2x 10= 20
Coal: 5x 10= 50
Chems: 0.5x 20= 10
Power: 200x 0.10= 20
Production cost: 15
Total: 115
If you sell in contract, thats a 20 each profit.
Nowadays iron ore and coal got less expensive on the market, but in the long run they might go up again to 15 ea
At 15ea for IronOre/Coal, you end up making a 15 ea loss on steel Q0.
Still, produce stones instead of IO/C and you get a better profit.
Your answer looks funny tho..
You don't want to make a profit, but you intend to grow..
Growth is faster when you make a profit as a small company.
Build power plants, produce power, grow to decent size.
Then at a decent size you start rebuilding to the industry you intend to play.
If you don't think that is fun, why bother asking for info in the forum???
-
Guest
-
Guest
-
Guest
Last time i had a look (i think it was yesterday) there were several offers below 10.sally wrote:Actually, Iron Ore is already more expensive now, the cheapest offer is 14,50, and then you get 1 Iron Ore.
The rest is way above that price already.
Coal is 20 caps now, cheapest offer.
Proven our point I think.
Already wondered why it was so low regarding the current contest.
However, i've seen it for sale a lot during the last few months around and below 10..
Still, in the long run its hardly worth the effort as most people know.
But i'm very curious...why would someone who doesn't care about a profit or even refuses to make a profit start a thread like this????
Really, it doesn't make any sense at all....
-
Guest
I don't mean to sound like I am ignoring your advice; it is just really annoying to me when I asked for advice and people said "X is unprofitable and you will LOSE money" when what they meant was "X is not the most profitable way to do it" or "X makes a fairly small profit compared to Y". It sounds like you saying "my way is the only way to play, and anything else is automatically wrong."
Anyway, thank you for the advice, sally and Horizon - I will definitely try to follow it.
You're right, I got it mixed up.From your power value i guess you are R2 and you decided to use the water price for your power...
Where did you get that from?You don't want to make a profit, but you intend to grow.
Anyway, thank you for the advice, sally and Horizon - I will definitely try to follow it.
-
Guest
You are welcome Kestrel, and yes you are right, our way IS the only way to play it and everything else is automatically wrong!..
Just kidding!!
It may come across like that but I guess we are just eager to help you avoid mistakes that we made (still make sometimes).
That is all.
Sorry for sounding like a bunch of old bats.
Just kidding!!
It may come across like that but I guess we are just eager to help you avoid mistakes that we made (still make sometimes).
That is all.
Sorry for sounding like a bunch of old bats.
-
Guest
Yeah, I can understand that. And I'm sure I will eventually wind up deciding that you guys were exactly right too, but I'd rather figure it out through the course of the game. The numbers alone don't really tell me how everything is going to work out in practice.sally wrote:It may come across like that but I guess we are just eager to help you avoid mistakes that we made (still make sometimes).
-
Guest
-
Guest
Well....Kestrel wrote:I don't mean to sound like I am ignoring your advice; it is just really annoying to me when I asked for advice and people said "X is unprofitable and you will LOSE money" when what they meant was "X is not the most profitable way to do it" or "X makes a fairly small profit compared to Y". It sounds like you saying "my way is the only way to play, and anything else is automatically wrong."
You're right, I got it mixed up.From your power value i guess you are R2 and you decided to use the water price for your power...
Where did you get that from?You don't want to make a profit, but you intend to grow.
Anyway, thank you for the advice, sally and Horizon - I will definitely try to follow it.
When you are referring to steel, it in fact is making you lose money...
current price of IOre/Coal being around 15 each gets the total production cost up to 145 making producing steel a loss.
When you then claim you aren't making a loss cuz you produce your own IOre/Coal you might think you are right, but still you only manage to get a "profit" which isn't actually one.
If you don't use the resourse value which actually matches the market value of the resourse you aren't making a profit but cheating yourself out of a profit.
Why would you use 3c for iron ore when you can sell it at the market at 15??
Yeah, i know you claim it is fun to produce etc etc bla bla bla....
Dude, if you want to cheat yourself go ahead...but don't ask advise if you intend to ignore it anyway...
ps.
Where would one get the idea of you not wanting to make a profit...Kestrel wrote:This might be true if all you cared about was profit, but I'd rather sacrifice some profit in order to gain *fun*, or to accomplish a goal.
But hey, you are new so you know best how to play te game...
-
Guest
"Profit" just means that you sold something for more than you paid to make it, which is the case if you make things from scratch. It may not be enough profit for the buildings you used to pay for themselves in a timely manner, but it is still a profit, and you will make money eventually, just more slowly. It may not be the best option, but that doesn't mean your net worth is decreasing because of it.Ronintje wrote:When you then claim you aren't making a loss cuz you produce your own IOre/Coal you might think you are right, but still you only manage to get a "profit" which isn't actually one.
I said "sacrifice some profit" not "sacrifice all profit".Where would one get the idea of you not wanting to make a profit...Kestrel wrote:This might be true if all you cared about was profit, but I'd rather sacrifice some profit in order to gain *fun*, or to accomplish a goal.