Cabriolets

[Guest]

Hi everyone, does anyone still make Cabriolets? It seems they are one of the most difficult and profitable sectors but no-one makes them. I know Marxer used to have a massive outfit but now anyone? I know sourcing the supplys can be difficult as few people sell quality e-components, glass, plastic etc. Are there any other major pit falls, as I am in the middle of building a cabriolet company on Realm2 using Hellenic Industries's Car factories (finally out of building and selling buildings). Any advice would be appreciated

[Guest]

get highest quality glass available, you only need 10 for each cabrio so the price doesnt really matter. if you are lucky you can get a big lot from the market and it lasts for say one month. thats one of the lessons i used in my early days when i was producing cabriolets.

[Guest]

If you are struggling to get the quality up igm me. I used to supply Hellenic with high Q textiles I can add Q6 to your cabs straight away for not much more that market Q0.

[Guest]

Yes, I am making cabrios. A few hints:

1. Try to lower production costs and have your car factories in green.
2. engines do need just one oil and one ecomp. Buy them at market at very high quality. Especially oil.
3. Produce tires yourself and use high quality seeds.
4. Research the whole production chain yourself. I even produce my own steel, because they are needed in so many items, and it upgrades a lot of compartment qualities.
5. Glass at high quality buying on the market is a great idea. It influences quality for a bargain.
6. However, buying textiles and plastics on the market at high quality is a bad idea. It is a way too expensive. Produce these yourself.

I am now expanding 2 car dealers max sized, to be finished in October. Max sized research centers are expected to be finished 2 months earlier. Everything must be produced yourself at decent quality, (except oil for engines). Without these cost reductions and quality researches profits are low. It needs much time to do that and it is very complicated to make.

Thats why a year upgrading is needed, but when finished I believe you have something special.

Good luck.

[Guest]

The "produce everything yourself" is an old trick that makes people lower their own profits. It may seem it is oh so profitable because your production costs seem low. But what people keep forgetting over and over again is that producing stuff yourself means

1. You need to build a lot of buildings that make very low profits. Steel is a great example: Of course, it costs somewhere around 10 caps to produce in green, but you need a lot of mines, powerplants and wells to support your factory. When you calculate, the profits per worker in the whole chain are miserable. Take a look at this topic:

http://forum.upjers.com/klcom/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25881

And try to read and understand it, it is not that difficult. Then scroll down to steel and take a look at the prices you would have to associate to it (the price for further calculations) to achieve a moderate profitability of 300 caps per working hour (one hour of one worker) would be 175 even at a manager level with small producing buildings. So then if you go on, producing car bodies from your own steel would give you 12000 caps higher price than the one from npc steel. While the steel quality would have to be q30 to get q1 increase in finished cabrio.

2. You need a lot of RC's for all the products involved if you mean it seriously and try to maximize qualities of all involved products.

[Guest]

I am not going to make the steel or seeds. You just need to much (812 per Cabriolet) steel. However making everything else I think could be made yourself. You may lose money having so much RCs and buildings like factories could be used more profitably. However I think you should make the money back on the sale of cabriolets, retail is where the money is. It just is that I have no idea how to retail cabriolets and wonder does anyone know how?

[Guest]

Of course you don't want to produce everything yourself. Power and water need to be bought and not produced yourself. The statement that all the supplying producing facilities are inefficient is not correct. Since when are factories, e-facs, textile facs and so on not profitable? Most of these buildings can produce the amount of components in just one hour for days selling. So during the rest of time you can easily produce textiles and Ecomps with it.

I am convinced that producing own seeds is not needed. The amount to be used in 4 tyres is just a small minority, comparing to the production cost of a cabrio.

I didnt say that everything need to be produced in green. Only the car factory and E factory need to be located in green. Mines in yellow, everything else in red.

The statement that a steel quality of 30 increases cabrio quality with 1 is wrong calculated, because of 2 reasons:
1. Coal/ore/chemicals/minerals qualities are not calculated within, which makes steel quality better
2. Not calculated is that tyres,car bodies, and engines are increased as well.

lets calculate these stated that all researches are set at 30.

Coal: 30/3 = 10
Iron ore: 30/3 = 10
Minerals: 30/3 = 10
Chemicals: (30 + 10)/3 = 13
Steel: (30 + 10 + 10 + 13)/5 = 12

The increase for components are:

Tyres: 12/4 = 3
Engines: 12/5 = 2
Car bodies: 12/3=4

CONCLUSION: Increase for cabrio quality: (12+3+2+4)/10 = 2 (and not 1)

How many extra cabrio sells are that? Is the extra income outweighing the costs or not? If someone can tell me, please reply.

By the way: also interesting is to produce only tyres with high quality steel. You just need 12 steel for 1 cabrio and could do with 1 mine and one factory.

[Guest]

Compare the profit of 1 textile factory making leather Jackets to one making textiles for cabriolets. The first option is far more profitable. What Greed is trying to say is that sometimes you can make more money selling all the individual parts Cabriolets needs for more than selling cabriolets.

There was/is a guy on Realm1 who does make everything for cabriolets including power and water in house. He sells them as well and has nearly 20 RCs. However all his buildings are maxed and he buys coins using real money.

How many car factories to car dealers do you have? I am not sure if 14,612m2 car dealers can sell 143 Cabriolets daily. Am I being a bit ambitious?

Oh and on using quality steel tires do make sense but I think Hellenic Industries used HQ steel in his engines as well.

[Guest]

Exactly lolzer, thank you Your factories can be put to much better use if they produce plastics or gas instead of steel. The mathematics dont change even if you just switch to steel for one day (though i doubt it would cover your needs that quick) - if you produce steel just one day out of 31, your factory will still make only 10% the possible profit on that day, so you basically make the factories run in vain for that day. Not mentioning the mines and RC's you need.

Same thing with producing wardrobes for example: you typically dont want to produce the steel chain nor the wood chain. Npc steel and wood are simply cheaper than anything you could produce (with the exception of say q50+ wood or q100 steel. But that is a looooong way to go It is far better to outsource (no matter what negative connotation this word has) and specialize on one or two things.

This is of course from the Ferengi point of view (any star trek fans here? ). Of course if you want some extra excitement you should indeed go and produce some extra stuff, like me for example. i am providing kapiteens with kapiperfume to be attractive to each other

Oh and p.s. yes i am sorry about the steel calculation - you can make cabrios of +4 quality if you use q30 steel (not q30 steel research). However, q30 steel does not automatically imply q30 textiles or e-components

[Guest]

It is indeed true. 143 cabrios selling is not much, and I deal with the same amounts of selling. The profits are around the 10 million c / day with it. The question is not how many car factories do I need for 1 dealer, but how many dealers do I need for 1 car factory?

The reason for going on to 2 max sized dealers is that the selling does not drop with dealer grow. If a dealer doubles size, the sells do double either, while with production facilities it is far from that. For instance: 2 2000 m2 wells produce more oil then 1 8000 m2 well. When trying to reduce production costs and making better qualities, I think that the amount of sales will increase fast. But have to admit, it is just a gamble. Thats why I am just upgrading 2 car dealers to max size and not a whole bunch.

The idea to make leather jackets instead of textile sounds weird, because textiles are needed anyway. You have to buy them on market if you don't produce them. It is a little bit difficult to make cabrios with leather jackets, isn't it? For 143 cabrios I can produce the amount of textiles in 2 hours with a small textile factory. The rest of time can be used for leather jackets anyway.

I am now convinced that producing own steel is the wrong way around, and that these things need to be bought at NPC. (except high Q steel for Tyres). And mines are used to produce gold for jewels, to attract each other.

[Guest]

aljooge my plan is to build 39 14,612m2 buildings each selling 146 cabriolets daily (in red) supplied by 3 maxed car factories. Or should I reduce the number of dealerships? How many cabrios do you sell a day by the way?

I know about production gains drop as you increase in size. Though I think in shops I think to sell is: time to sell with 1 employee divided by total employees. If that is any help.

Better example than that textiles one. Consider I make every part of the the chain for cabrios. If i were to make plastic for 120 (just say it happens) and it says cabrios cost 150,000 to make according to the warehouse. Selling the cabrrios then for 160,000c isn't profitable as I could sell the 120 plastic at 405c each. Then (405-120)*120= 34200c or it is more profitable to sell one part of the chain to someone else than the entire chain is worth to you. Get it?

[Guest]

Last time I measured was a long time ago when having 2 car dealers at 3500 m2. 1 in Germany 1 in France. these 2 It makes 2.5 million pure profit a day per dealer, which isn't much. I bought lots of high Q components on the market and only made own tyres, engines and car bodies resulting in production costs around 200000. The quality was between 25 and 30 depending on what was available on market and my own cabrio research. I sold them for 400000 which gives 200000 margins. That is why I am trying to find out what happends if I produce more and more high Q items myself.

think your 160000 selling is a way too cheap while producing them for 150000. And I am not building 39 dealers right now, because have to know how many profits can be made with 1 max sized dealer. Moreover I don't have the money for it to upgrade 39 dealers. In that case 39 dealers are doing half a year nothing and upgrading isn't cheap. For me it is a gamble, and first need to find out if dealers can make huge profits anyway. idk.

[Guest]

Ok, my "rules for making cabs"
1. Tires - make your self if you have a source of cheap rubber or you made it by your self. Tires are the only product in the game that it is worth to be produced with High-Q steel (and not Q0 from NPC)
2. Glass - made by my self. Q39 is not bad. If anyone is interested I'm selling it for 200+5Q.
3. Plastic - My plastic - I sell it for 420+2Q.
4. Textiles bought some textiles from NYK and yss inc.
5. Engines - Made by my self with Q61 oil and Q50 E-Comps - both from market + Q0 NPC's steel.
6. Car bodes - Made by my self with Q0 NPC's steel.
7. E-Comps - The same Q50 E-Comps.
8. Power - Bought from the market (not NPC )
9. Steel - Q0, of corse!

And... Red is a better place for a car factory, I spend an extra 3000c/cabriolet, but production time is much lower!

[Guest]

Moldova do you retail or sell your cabriolets to other people. Because I am trying to find out if anyone can give me advice on how many cardealers I should have.