It is no fun to log in to Kapilands every eight hours to restock the store, when the warehouse is filled to bursting with the same good. There should be an option for automatic restocking so that the store can continue selling at the determined price, until the warehouse runs empty (or the player changes the setting). This would increase my satisfaction with the game to no end.
Manufacturing is not a problem, since there does not seem to be a limit to the quantity of the production run. Because of this I can just set up two or three factories or whatever and stagger their production at 24 hour intervals. That means that I can control manufacturing by logging in just once a day (or every two days or whatever I choose). It is the sales side of the things that requires multiple visits per day, and it is no fun.
So what if the sales floor can only hold n products? Why not have a choice to tell the store to sell 2000 products, even if the store only holds 40 at a time? This would make it possible to seek the most lucrative sales price instead of the one that empties the floor in 24 hours (which is very, very inefficient indeed).
Automatic restocking for stores, please
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Guest
You need to expand your stores, every 20 m2 you expand, you can double the amount sell.So what if the sales floor can only hold n products? Why not have a choice to tell the store to sell 2000 products, even if the store only holds 40 at a time? This would make it possible to seek the most lucrative sales price instead of the one that empties the floor in 24 hours (which is very, very inefficient indeed).
Besides, you don
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Guest
I think the reason they didn't do that is because it would automate the game too much. This way is intentionally giving you a reason to log in and play.
It's worth considering though if the rack space might just be too small. If they doubled the racks, without changing any of the maket inputs, that wouldn't change much except you could do a 24 hours check instead of 2 12s.
It's worth considering though if the rack space might just be too small. If they doubled the racks, without changing any of the maket inputs, that wouldn't change much except you could do a 24 hours check instead of 2 12s.
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Guest
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Guest
There are plenty of reasons to log in and play even without this kind of makeshift work: contracts, market and competitions. Competitions alone change the market landscape in interesting ways, and trying to create a company that can benefit optimally from competitions seems like an interesting mode of play.Knolls wrote:I think the reason they didn't do that is because it would automate the game too much. This way is intentionally giving you a reason to log in and play.
It's worth considering though if the rack space might just be too small. If they doubled the racks, without changing any of the maket inputs, that wouldn't change much except you could do a 24 hours check instead of 2 12s.
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Guest
...oh, I see.
I'm selling q2 tables in Germany in a 40 m2 store (80 tables), and I've reached the level of Trader. From a few calculations I arrived at the following results:
Maximum profit/24 h (calculated from the production price of 116.7 c provided by the game) can be earned at the price of 180, which would require 4900 tables and 35 restocks per day (profit of 180,000 c). Price of 200 would generate only 10,000 c less with only 25 restocks (2060 tables). At 500 c the 80 tables sell in a bit over 24 hours (1 restock) and generate a profit of roughly 30,000 c.
Other companies seem to purchase tables at 170 c + 10c/q, so I could just sell the tables via contract for 190 c/table and save the bother of building a furniture store.
However. And this is a big one.
If I sell the tables at under 395, I could earn more just by selling the raw materials at the market (600,000 caps [for q0 materials; I don't know if there are sufficient markets for q3 wood] more at the price of 180 c/table). So if I want to sell tables at a low price in order to cash them fast, I could earn more by selling the raw materials directly.
I'm selling q2 tables in Germany in a 40 m2 store (80 tables), and I've reached the level of Trader. From a few calculations I arrived at the following results:
Maximum profit/24 h (calculated from the production price of 116.7 c provided by the game) can be earned at the price of 180, which would require 4900 tables and 35 restocks per day (profit of 180,000 c). Price of 200 would generate only 10,000 c less with only 25 restocks (2060 tables). At 500 c the 80 tables sell in a bit over 24 hours (1 restock) and generate a profit of roughly 30,000 c.
Other companies seem to purchase tables at 170 c + 10c/q, so I could just sell the tables via contract for 190 c/table and save the bother of building a furniture store.
However. And this is a big one.
If I sell the tables at under 395, I could earn more just by selling the raw materials at the market (600,000 caps [for q0 materials; I don't know if there are sufficient markets for q3 wood] more at the price of 180 c/table). So if I want to sell tables at a low price in order to cash them fast, I could earn more by selling the raw materials directly.
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Guest
Indeed, it sounds like you've realized something very important. I've mentioned it a couple of times, and am starting to think some people just can't get it. But it seems you do. Basically it's this:
Your factories deserve to get paid too!
The cost calculated by the game for you has its uses, but it's not the only thing to consider. Suppose you have your own chain for mincemeat:
But is it really? Look at all those buildings you needed, all that processing time. Every one of those steps earned 0% so that your store could earn 250%. How does that work for the company?
You need to markup each step. There's two ways to do that.
1) Figure what you consider to be a fair markup (20%? 50%? 10?) each time you make something, then use that cost as input for the next step (which gets its own markup). As a more complicated step, you might even want to vary the markup based on how fast or slow the production is.
2) Check the market each time and see what you could have gotten by selling inputs instead of using them.
Using method 2, I see beef for 18, power for .06 (and not much that cheap). That makes the cost of mincemeat 9 + 3 +1.50 = 13.50. Seeing it's on the market for 17 it seems the mincemeat step is ok. Then I do a profit curve (as it seems you have) with the cost at 17 (not 4!) and see what the store price should be.
And of course I would want to do that at every step. My instinct is somewhere around the corn -> cattle and cattle -> beef steps, someone is losing money. But I leave that as an exercise to the reader.
(I don't know why I used mincemeat as an example. I love making this point using the cattle-breeding market because I can say "your cows ate all your profits!" I could have done it on tables, but you seem to have that in hand.)
But thinking of tables, that brings something to mind: contest effects. Since so many people have switched into cotton, wood is harder to find right now and the price has gone up quite a bit. That's well and good for considering what to do in the long-term, but don't accidently make long-term decisions based on short-term data.
Your factories deserve to get paid too!
The cost calculated by the game for you has its uses, but it's not the only thing to consider. Suppose you have your own chain for mincemeat:
- You make your own power
- You use the power to make water
- You use the water to make seeds
- You use the seeds and water to make corn
- You use the corn and water to make cattle
- You use the cattle and power to make beef.
- You use the use the beef and power to make mincemeat
- Then you sell the mincemeat in the store for 10.
But is it really? Look at all those buildings you needed, all that processing time. Every one of those steps earned 0% so that your store could earn 250%. How does that work for the company?
You need to markup each step. There's two ways to do that.
1) Figure what you consider to be a fair markup (20%? 50%? 10?) each time you make something, then use that cost as input for the next step (which gets its own markup). As a more complicated step, you might even want to vary the markup based on how fast or slow the production is.
2) Check the market each time and see what you could have gotten by selling inputs instead of using them.
Using method 2, I see beef for 18, power for .06 (and not much that cheap). That makes the cost of mincemeat 9 + 3 +1.50 = 13.50. Seeing it's on the market for 17 it seems the mincemeat step is ok. Then I do a profit curve (as it seems you have) with the cost at 17 (not 4!) and see what the store price should be.
And of course I would want to do that at every step. My instinct is somewhere around the corn -> cattle and cattle -> beef steps, someone is losing money. But I leave that as an exercise to the reader.
(I don't know why I used mincemeat as an example. I love making this point using the cattle-breeding market because I can say "your cows ate all your profits!" I could have done it on tables, but you seem to have that in hand.)
But thinking of tables, that brings something to mind: contest effects. Since so many people have switched into cotton, wood is harder to find right now and the price has gone up quite a bit. That's well and good for considering what to do in the long-term, but don't accidently make long-term decisions based on short-term data.
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Guest
Yeah, I seem to recall that the usual price for wood is around 20 c, not 40. And this is one of the phenomena I was referring to when I mentioned that these contests alter the production landscape in enlightening ways.But thinking of tables, that brings something to mind: contest effects. Since so many people have switched into cotton, wood is harder to find right now and the price has gone up quite a bit. That's well and good for considering what to do in the long-term, but don't accidently make long-term decisions based on short-term data.
I must admit that I get satisfaction from the simple process of producing (imaginary) tables. So for me there is also a psychic (psychological) profit in table production... and since my favorite pastime are role-playing games, it is easy for me to imagine all the happy Kapilandians using my tables for their gaming hobbies or something
That triggered an association: The game could have a "Wrecker" building where you can dismantle items to their components at a loss of, say, 50%... that would bring a new arbitrage layer to the production landscape (spotting severely underpriced products, buying and dismantling them and using the components to produce something more expensive).
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Guest
Wow, that's a really cool idea! I'd be in full support of something like that.Widgetry wrote: That triggered an association: The game could have a "Wrecker" building where you can dismantle items to their components at a loss of, say, 50%... that would bring a new arbitrage layer to the production landscape (spotting severely underpriced products, buying and dismantling them and using the components to produce something more expensive).
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Guest
Okay. I've now made a quick analysis of ROI for the buildings producing basic raw materials (power, water, stone). The highest was stone (7,5% per 24 h after all costs), so I used that to calculate a cost component for each building involved in production of tables.
If I were to sell 7 wood @ 20 c and 300 power at 0,08 c, I'd be netting 132,84 c, so that's the proper value for the materials used in the production of a table.
Thus adjusted production cost for my tables comes to 206.81 c, and if I didn't have a furniture store and I were to sell them for a lower net than this, I should just sell my table production line, open more mines and sell stone at 10 c instead.
However, in this game I have a specific time-preference for caps (sooner the better
), and this explains why I still feel like a winner when I sell tables for 190 c to another company. And I mentioned the psychic profit for producing imaginary tables for imaginary NPCs in my previous post...
If I were to sell 7 wood @ 20 c and 300 power at 0,08 c, I'd be netting 132,84 c, so that's the proper value for the materials used in the production of a table.
Thus adjusted production cost for my tables comes to 206.81 c, and if I didn't have a furniture store and I were to sell them for a lower net than this, I should just sell my table production line, open more mines and sell stone at 10 c instead.
However, in this game I have a specific time-preference for caps (sooner the better
), and this explains why I still feel like a winner when I sell tables for 190 c to another company. And I mentioned the psychic profit for producing imaginary tables for imaginary NPCs in my previous post...-
Guest
Stones are down, I think power has the lead now. (Which is why it has trouble going higher - people will make/expand their own plants rather than buying if it gets to .08ish)
But that's a good basis. Of course it doesn't take into account the fun of producing things - as you say, the psychological benefit. Power is profitable, but it's also pretty simple - no inputs, no research. Most would prefer something else.
It's also worth remembering that tables will naturally become more profitable relative to stone/power as quality goes up. Which those can never do.
That said, via very intricate spreadsheet work about 2-3 weeks ago I've got a pretty good analysis of every product in the game. And I was a little surprised that so few industries seem worth getting into. The Knolls List contains only 10 of the 61 final goods that are, relatively speaking, worth doing. In keeping with the earlier discussion, "worth doing" means that anyone anywhere along the chain can make a steady profit in the neighborhood of power/stones/water/coal/iron.
For example, the very popular Gas is solidly on the list. And as many players can attest, it's profitable to buy gas on the market and sell it in a Gas Station. Or to buy oil on the market and sell gas on the market. Or to make Oil and sell it on the market. Or all 3. That's a good product.
Also on the list: Leather Jackets. Monitors. Wardrobes. And the other 6 are proprietary information.
Worst product? Candy. The public just doesn't want to buy it for some reason. Candy Bars look better, though I won't say by how much.
But that's a good basis. Of course it doesn't take into account the fun of producing things - as you say, the psychological benefit. Power is profitable, but it's also pretty simple - no inputs, no research. Most would prefer something else.
It's also worth remembering that tables will naturally become more profitable relative to stone/power as quality goes up. Which those can never do.
That said, via very intricate spreadsheet work about 2-3 weeks ago I've got a pretty good analysis of every product in the game. And I was a little surprised that so few industries seem worth getting into. The Knolls List contains only 10 of the 61 final goods that are, relatively speaking, worth doing. In keeping with the earlier discussion, "worth doing" means that anyone anywhere along the chain can make a steady profit in the neighborhood of power/stones/water/coal/iron.
For example, the very popular Gas is solidly on the list. And as many players can attest, it's profitable to buy gas on the market and sell it in a Gas Station. Or to buy oil on the market and sell gas on the market. Or to make Oil and sell it on the market. Or all 3. That's a good product.
Also on the list: Leather Jackets. Monitors. Wardrobes. And the other 6 are proprietary information.
Worst product? Candy. The public just doesn't want to buy it for some reason. Candy Bars look better, though I won't say by how much.
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Guest
I like the psychological way. I am not playing this game to be the richest. I play it to produce something.
Well, I started with the Gas industry to get some financial basis, but am starting my car chain now.
I do not expect to earn that good money with cars as with gas, but I WANT to produce GOOD CARS/MOTORBIKES
I have heard complains about full-chain producers, but that is more fun for me, than be a magnate in Oil or whatever.
Happy playing
Well, I started with the Gas industry to get some financial basis, but am starting my car chain now.
I do not expect to earn that good money with cars as with gas, but I WANT to produce GOOD CARS/MOTORBIKES
I have heard complains about full-chain producers, but that is more fun for me, than be a magnate in Oil or whatever.
Happy playing
This kind of "automatism" won't come in this game.
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Like somebody else said before: if you do not want to refill your store every 8 hours, increase your prices and sales time will also increase. That also has the positive side-effect that you do not dump/ destroy any stats price if you sell too cheap.
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Like somebody else said before: if you do not want to refill your store every 8 hours, increase your prices and sales time will also increase. That also has the positive side-effect that you do not dump/ destroy any stats price if you sell too cheap.