Firstly allow me to say this
I very much enjoy this game and in general its a well coded game... There is a long list of things I do like about the game but this thread is not about that....
Cheating should be more well described and defined in the game... My first company on realm 1 was banned for cheating and I bought buildings of the open market...
Suggestion... Market or contracts should not be allowing any building/product/research to be sold at a level that can be logged as cheating... if you have a system of detecting cheating in the game then code it into the game play of the game... this way a new guy with limited knowledge on what things are suppose to be worth cannot make the mistake of buying something that another idiot places on the market to low.... and make a warning system that warns you if you about to do an illegal contract...
Make the cheat impossible... place parameters on the value of products and allow or disallow trade outside of these parameters. remove these on contest products...
this is really the only thing I really dislike about this game....
cheating...
Moderator: moderators
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Guest
no... it wont restrict the market... allow me a moment to explain..
I will use a building as an example but this goes for any product that is not a contest product...
Lets say that a 1000 m2 plantation is worth 100 million ... the system reads it as a plantation 1000m2 = 100mil on normal market ... then you add parameters to the 100 million of +60% and -60%... so if the building is sold for 160 million in a high demand market it wont trigger the cheat bot... if it is sold for 40 million (less 60% of 100mil) it would also not trigger the cheat bot... however anything below 40 million or over 160milion will trigger the cheat bot and not allow the trade... 60% is just an example... this could be 70% or 80% to allow even more market flexibility... but this lays down a set rule and eliminates players getting banned on the market for trades...
Your 60% parameter is what you use to still allow a very flexible market in low and high demand times..
Obviously different buildings will have different values added to them because of there actual in game worth...
I also do acknowledge that there is many other factors that will get you banned for cheating but the market can and should be controlled by parameters on buildings and products...
we have very capable game mods for catching the real cheats in the game...
I will use a building as an example but this goes for any product that is not a contest product...
Lets say that a 1000 m2 plantation is worth 100 million ... the system reads it as a plantation 1000m2 = 100mil on normal market ... then you add parameters to the 100 million of +60% and -60%... so if the building is sold for 160 million in a high demand market it wont trigger the cheat bot... if it is sold for 40 million (less 60% of 100mil) it would also not trigger the cheat bot... however anything below 40 million or over 160milion will trigger the cheat bot and not allow the trade... 60% is just an example... this could be 70% or 80% to allow even more market flexibility... but this lays down a set rule and eliminates players getting banned on the market for trades...
Your 60% parameter is what you use to still allow a very flexible market in low and high demand times..
Obviously different buildings will have different values added to them because of there actual in game worth...
I also do acknowledge that there is many other factors that will get you banned for cheating but the market can and should be controlled by parameters on buildings and products...
we have very capable game mods for catching the real cheats in the game...
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Guest
Making a mistake will not get you banned.
Only if you repeatedly sell products for way to little, (like wood for 8 caps), you will be considered cheating.
I remember when I first started this game, sometimes I wasn't sure if I put the right price, or I had other questions conserning cheating and i just sent a PM to GoldenEye to ask, just to make sure.
GoldenEye always says: if you sell your products by contract, use marketprice minus 10% and there is no problem.
(Ofcourse sometimes the marketprices are insane and make no sense at all).
I do agree there is a grey area which can be confusing.
Much has been said about the subject on the forum though.... click ->
Only if you repeatedly sell products for way to little, (like wood for 8 caps), you will be considered cheating.
I remember when I first started this game, sometimes I wasn't sure if I put the right price, or I had other questions conserning cheating and i just sent a PM to GoldenEye to ask, just to make sure.
GoldenEye always says: if you sell your products by contract, use marketprice minus 10% and there is no problem.
(Ofcourse sometimes the marketprices are insane and make no sense at all).
I do agree there is a grey area which can be confusing.
Much has been said about the subject on the forum though.... click ->
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Guest
Hmm... I would like to "correct" something:
This 10%-guideline is nothing official. This is simply the experience I had in the past as an active player (also in the German version). This has never led to any problems as far as I know.
And before I will get a PM on each and every issue: Unfortunately I cannot give any price lists etc. as they simply do not exist.
And I am not able to lead any price discussions about a minimum/maximum price. So PMs about this topic are absolutely useless.
The rules maybe appear as "vague", but the way they are is the only useful way. upjers has tested several rules over and over again in their experience with browser games. This one seems to be the most efficient, most useful version.
Please try not to find out the limits and borders, simply try to stay in a fair market price-frame. If this is now at 11 % or 9 % below/above a usual market price... this can nobody tell you.
Please do not forget that most players never have got any problems about the rules. Most players are able to find a fair "price-frame".
So: Thanks for your idea about the rules but they won't be changed (at least not this way). Thanks for your understanding.
I will leave this thread open on purpose so nobody can complain that I would not allow discussions. But please do not expect any changes in this issue.
This 10%-guideline is nothing official. This is simply the experience I had in the past as an active player (also in the German version). This has never led to any problems as far as I know.
And before I will get a PM on each and every issue: Unfortunately I cannot give any price lists etc. as they simply do not exist.
And I am not able to lead any price discussions about a minimum/maximum price. So PMs about this topic are absolutely useless.The rules maybe appear as "vague", but the way they are is the only useful way. upjers has tested several rules over and over again in their experience with browser games. This one seems to be the most efficient, most useful version.
Please try not to find out the limits and borders, simply try to stay in a fair market price-frame. If this is now at 11 % or 9 % below/above a usual market price... this can nobody tell you.
Please do not forget that most players never have got any problems about the rules. Most players are able to find a fair "price-frame".
So: Thanks for your idea about the rules but they won't be changed (at least not this way). Thanks for your understanding.
I will leave this thread open on purpose so nobody can complain that I would not allow discussions.
But please do not expect any changes in this issue. -
Guest
This is where you are wrong sally....sally wrote:Making a mistake will not get you banned.
Only if you repeatedly sell products for way to little, (like wood for 8 caps), you will be considered cheating.
I was banned for buying buildings of the market when I was still a very new player on realm 1 ... buying the wrong product """WILL""" get you banned before you even know about it being to low...
don't get me wrong... I am not trying to do anything about my first ban.. its done and over and I am very happy with my new company as its growing....
Point is you Cannot have Vague rules over something that can get you banned...
With all due respect to you Goldeneye... and you know I have allot of respect for you... but this rule does need revision on a game that you pay for to play...GoldenEye wrote: Please do not forget that most players never have got any problems about the rules. Most players are able to find a fair "price-frame".
So: Thanks for your idea about the rules but they won't be changed (at least not this way). Thanks for your understanding. Smile
I will leave this thread open on purpose so nobody can complain that I would not allow discussions. Wink But please do not expect any changes in this issue. Smile
you cannot risk playing for month or years on a game and then get banned on placing a wrong product out with a typo and getting banned for it... there is hundreds of buildings and products on the market getting sold for way more or less than 10% margin... 60% would be more accurate...
Point is actually you don't have to change the rules at all... change the programing in the trade windows... as a safeguard against typo's and idiots like I was...
the rules are not the problem really...thanx for allowing me the opportunity to share this idea with you... I have also been involved in Browser based games design before (and still do) This is why I make the suggestion on this matter...
You cannot play chess online without remaining 100% in the rules because the game play window will not allow you a move that breaks the rules...my suggestion is to do the same here...
Thanx
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Guest
You missed on point... The 100.000 price is lets say for 1.000 m2 but for 2.000 is 130.000 and the 3.0000 maybe 180.000 and there is no accurate market.. Also after 5 months the 100.000 might be 300.000.... So if they put borders as you say in the code they will have to change them all the time.... This something very difficult and time consuming and would bring in more problems than it will solve.....
But i want to ask something to Golden-eye... I understand the reason to ban 2 compnies that send contracts under price but i can't see the reason to ban for buying cheap from the market.... The can't be a cheat as all companies could have bought this cheap product..
But i want to ask something to Golden-eye... I understand the reason to ban 2 compnies that send contracts under price but i can't see the reason to ban for buying cheap from the market.... The can't be a cheat as all companies could have bought this cheap product..
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Guest
when your small and cant produce in much bulk you have to undercut the market drastically. If you put it on at the same price as everyone else the big players dont bother buying. I used to have to undercut the market by 10-30% to get it bought in time for the next batch of production since small companies sometimes have to sell the previous stock before they can produce any more and you kinda want to start the next production as soon as possible
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Guest
We can't judge what happened with your company as GE doesn't inform all of us about what happened, but if you didn't get the ban lifted i guess there was a lot more wrong then some typo, or you just didn't bother making your point and showing it was a mistake.Massada wrote:This is where you are wrong sally....sally wrote:Making a mistake will not get you banned.
Only if you repeatedly sell products for way to little, (like wood for 8 caps), you will be considered cheating.
I was banned for buying buildings of the market when I was still a very new player on realm 1 ... buying the wrong product """WILL""" get you banned before you even know about it being to low...
don't get me wrong... I am not trying to do anything about my first ban.. its done and over and I am very happy with my new company as its growing....
Point is you Cannot have Vague rules over something that can get you banned...
With all due respect to you Goldeneye... and you know I have allot of respect for you... but this rule does need revision on a game that you pay for to play...GoldenEye wrote: Please do not forget that most players never have got any problems about the rules. Most players are able to find a fair "price-frame".
So: Thanks for your idea about the rules but they won't be changed (at least not this way). Thanks for your understanding. Smile
I will leave this thread open on purpose so nobody can complain that I would not allow discussions. Wink But please do not expect any changes in this issue. Smile
you cannot risk playing for month or years on a game and then get banned on placing a wrong product out with a typo and getting banned for it... there is hundreds of buildings and products on the market getting sold for way more or less than 10% margin... 60% would be more accurate...
Point is actually you don't have to change the rules at all... change the programing in the trade windows... as a safeguard against typo's and idiots like I was...
thanx for allowing me the opportunity to share this idea with you... I have also been involved in Browser based games design before (and still do) This is why I make the suggestion on this matter...
You cannot play chess online without remaining 100% in the rules because the game play window will not allow you a move that breaks the rules...my suggestion is to do the same here...
Thanx
Only thing i ever noticed was WWTC and some other company making a mistake and it all got solved.
To me its not to difficult, anybody who actually bothers getting into this game a bit serious will know what is a right price and what might be dangerous.
If you are afraid of the borders, you obviously try to reach them..
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Guest
The other company was RVF International Corp., and it happened on the oil contest, when RVF International Corp. sent to WWTC a large quantity of oil (millions) for the price of 0 (zero). When sending the contract to WWTC, RVF International Corp. mistankely typed the price on the field unit price of "Sell at market" instead of the field unit price of "Send to an other company via contract.", and WWTC accepted the contract without checking the price, this was what happened. Also I can say that WWTC lost his place on the oil contest, and RVF International Corp. lost the money of the contract. And thanks to Upjers support and GoldenEye both companies got unbanned.Ronintje wrote:
Only thing i ever noticed was WWTC and some other company making a mistake and it all got solved.
About the borders, when I sell products on market I usually try to get the most of my products, so don't understand players that try to undercut the price on markets (like what happened recently in coins market).
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Guest
thanx for all the interest in my suggestion..
I just want to however come back to why I made the thread... I am not trying to get unbanned or even discuss getting banned...I am happy with my new company...
I am suggesting programming code into the trade window system that only allows numbers between certain parameters on trades... not changing rules either...
establishing a data-sheet for basic building values is not very hard to do... would take a few hours I admit, but by no means a real brainer... and yes buildings will be different in values... if you can create NPC for raw materials you can do it for buildings/research/products...
I just want to however come back to why I made the thread... I am not trying to get unbanned or even discuss getting banned...I am happy with my new company...
I am suggesting programming code into the trade window system that only allows numbers between certain parameters on trades... not changing rules either...
establishing a data-sheet for basic building values is not very hard to do... would take a few hours I admit, but by no means a real brainer...
and yes buildings will be different in values... if you can create NPC for raw materials you can do it for buildings/research/products...-
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It is simple... At the beginning of a Realm everything is cheap. Steel sells for 65 caps and Power for 0.03. However, a couple years down the road Raw materials are at the NPC price and other products have increased in selling price 400%.
That is why programmers cannot put in a simple code. Prices change all the time. As long as you keep your prices close to the average there won't be a problem.
P.S. You do get a message when you place goods on the market way to cheap. However, you can still get banned before you get that low these days. It is really only useful at the beginning of a Realm when prices are that low.
That is why programmers cannot put in a simple code. Prices change all the time. As long as you keep your prices close to the average there won't be a problem.
P.S. You do get a message when you place goods on the market way to cheap. However, you can still get banned before you get that low these days. It is really only useful at the beginning of a Realm when prices are that low.
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