how come minimum is not a problem . dont tell me steel for 0.01 in large quantity is ok or car bodies for 200 ..............when i started i thought it is just some guys domping extra or throwing profit for smaller guys and it is ok to take them............. i got banned cause not knowing the rules , alot of newbies , seriuce ones dont realy know and get caought..........thetho21 wrote:ya.....that's right. that's why i didn't post anything about min price in my first post as it is so complicated and need a lot of changes.
max price fixing is good one though. not much of changes and not for every products also. Just the one which have NPC.
NPC price....
Moderator: moderators
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Guest
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Guest
Your discussion is absolute useless. We had discussions like these about 100 times (and dont tell me this one is slightly different).
The conclusion of ALL these discussion ALWAYS was: There will be NO minimum OR maximum prices for any goods AND there will be NO change to the NPC prices...
Some of you discussing here are long enough reading this board to know this.
The conclusion of ALL these discussion ALWAYS was: There will be NO minimum OR maximum prices for any goods AND there will be NO change to the NPC prices...
Some of you discussing here are long enough reading this board to know this.
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Guest
I appreciate you sharing your experiences of previous discussions, and knowledge that it was turned down. Do you however remember why it was ?
I mean, I had for example read a hundred times about the online / offline feature being turned down, but it's only in the 101th thread that Tycoon herself took the time to explain why, and it was very informative and enlightening to read; plus in the light of her explanations on that topic, I also totally agree with her and see where it raises problems. But I'm sure it wasn't the first time she took the time to do so, and I would have liked to see other people do it for her instead of just repeating "they said no" without ever explaining why.
I'd appreciate if old time posters weren't all just screaming "this has been discussed 100 times and it's no", each time a common answer comes up, and stop at that. I think it would be more informative (and efficient) if they gave some short sumup or at least some leads as to why it was refused, and where it caused problems, if they're so familiar with the whole topic discussion that they're sick of it. Or even just a link to one of these discussions.
I don't think I'm particularly stupid, and I'm certainly ready to put myself in the other party's shoes, even the devs. But even thinking very hard about the problem, I really don't see where it would hurt things to prevent someone from selling Q0 steel above 135, or Q0 wood above 75, on the market. I totally see where it would help things though, especially newbie players not getting ripped off, and I feel it's a very valid suggestion deserving a valid answer. Even if the answer is no. I (and probably the other posters in this thread) am considering the devs as reasonable people, and probably having very reasonable reasons for making the game the way it is. And I'd be more than happy to hear these reasons, even if they're the reasons why something I'd like to see in the game can't be in there (and why I maybe don't want it all that much in the game, after all). So if you know something we don't, and if you've been in discussions were we haven't been, I think there are smarter and less arrogant ways to answer, than something along the lines of "The answer was no, and I read a hundred times why, but I'm not going to explain which key idea showed it had to be that way, or help you understand. I was there, and I know, neener neener neener".
I think posts like that are just going to make people feel snobbed and belittled at best, or angry at you at worst. I don't think it's informative, or going to lead any single reader of this thread to understand why the conclusion has been what it "always" was.
[edits: fixed couple spelling and grammar issues; I'm tired too
]
I mean, I had for example read a hundred times about the online / offline feature being turned down, but it's only in the 101th thread that Tycoon herself took the time to explain why, and it was very informative and enlightening to read; plus in the light of her explanations on that topic, I also totally agree with her and see where it raises problems. But I'm sure it wasn't the first time she took the time to do so, and I would have liked to see other people do it for her instead of just repeating "they said no" without ever explaining why.
I'd appreciate if old time posters weren't all just screaming "this has been discussed 100 times and it's no", each time a common answer comes up, and stop at that. I think it would be more informative (and efficient) if they gave some short sumup or at least some leads as to why it was refused, and where it caused problems, if they're so familiar with the whole topic discussion that they're sick of it. Or even just a link to one of these discussions.
I don't think I'm particularly stupid, and I'm certainly ready to put myself in the other party's shoes, even the devs. But even thinking very hard about the problem, I really don't see where it would hurt things to prevent someone from selling Q0 steel above 135, or Q0 wood above 75, on the market. I totally see where it would help things though, especially newbie players not getting ripped off, and I feel it's a very valid suggestion deserving a valid answer. Even if the answer is no. I (and probably the other posters in this thread) am considering the devs as reasonable people, and probably having very reasonable reasons for making the game the way it is. And I'd be more than happy to hear these reasons, even if they're the reasons why something I'd like to see in the game can't be in there (and why I maybe don't want it all that much in the game, after all). So if you know something we don't, and if you've been in discussions were we haven't been, I think there are smarter and less arrogant ways to answer, than something along the lines of "The answer was no, and I read a hundred times why, but I'm not going to explain which key idea showed it had to be that way, or help you understand. I was there, and I know, neener neener neener".
I think posts like that are just going to make people feel snobbed and belittled at best, or angry at you at worst. I don't think it's informative, or going to lead any single reader of this thread to understand why the conclusion has been what it "always" was.
[edits: fixed couple spelling and grammar issues; I'm tired too
]
Last edited by Guest on 10.09.2007, 21:19, edited 3 times in total.
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Guest
Just a short answer, because i am tired...
1. Sorry, i meant no offense to anybody.
2. The reason of my post was just to stop people wasting energies on a topic discussed before.
3. I didnt say the topic is nonsense but the discussion (see 2). I totally agree, that there is no reason, why there should not be a cap for the prices at NPC level.
4. I dont know the reason, perhaps i read and forgot, but i wont go and look it up, because... (see 2)
5. Good night
1. Sorry, i meant no offense to anybody.
2. The reason of my post was just to stop people wasting energies on a topic discussed before.
3. I didnt say the topic is nonsense but the discussion (see 2). I totally agree, that there is no reason, why there should not be a cap for the prices at NPC level.
4. I dont know the reason, perhaps i read and forgot, but i wont go and look it up, because... (see 2)
5. Good night
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Guest
Thank you guys for reminding me to take another peek at the "Refused Suggestions" sticky. It doesn't explain nearly as well as I thought it did. I'll think about updating it later today.
For now, a couple short answers:
Why the NPC prices don't move
The reason the NPCs exist in the first place is to provide a hard limit on how much people have to spend for necessary basic goods. The way the numbers lined up, they are almost guaranteed to be necessary as players get larger and use more and more of them.
If the price of Steel was to move up, you might get more people moving in to produce but the NPC would still be providing a lot. The net effect would be slower growth for everybody (as expansion is thereby more expensive) and a profit boost for steelmakers. Since there are already plenty of products less beneficial than steel, that doesn't seem necessary.
Why there isn't a hard cap on selling above the NPC
It's rather a few reasons. Firstly, there are no hard caps on price setting anywhere in the market. And while it needn't be difficult to code, helping people who haven't bothered to look isn't all that great of a public service to make the effort worthwhile.
Secondly, you can only take "protecting people from their mistakes" so far. The NPC listing stands out fairly well if you actually look for it, and learning to check the prices and volumes (even learning the hard way) is a far better lesson than simply what to price steel at.
A listing can also get stranded simply by being too high above other players, and there's no way to automatically protect people from that. Also it's harder to learn from, whereas once a person realizes they've overbid an infinite supply, that kind of lesson about looking before you leap really sticks with you.
So there you go. Hopefully that provides a bit of clarity. No one wants newbies to misunderstand the price of steel. But there have been explicit tips in the newspaper, the msg of the day, and (thanks to some players) in the faxes. That's a good way for people to learn, better than forcing their hand.
eta: Hmm, so that's what I call a "short" answer, huh?
For now, a couple short answers:
Why the NPC prices don't move
The reason the NPCs exist in the first place is to provide a hard limit on how much people have to spend for necessary basic goods. The way the numbers lined up, they are almost guaranteed to be necessary as players get larger and use more and more of them.
If the price of Steel was to move up, you might get more people moving in to produce but the NPC would still be providing a lot. The net effect would be slower growth for everybody (as expansion is thereby more expensive) and a profit boost for steelmakers. Since there are already plenty of products less beneficial than steel, that doesn't seem necessary.
Why there isn't a hard cap on selling above the NPC
It's rather a few reasons. Firstly, there are no hard caps on price setting anywhere in the market. And while it needn't be difficult to code, helping people who haven't bothered to look isn't all that great of a public service to make the effort worthwhile.
Secondly, you can only take "protecting people from their mistakes" so far. The NPC listing stands out fairly well if you actually look for it, and learning to check the prices and volumes (even learning the hard way) is a far better lesson than simply what to price steel at.
A listing can also get stranded simply by being too high above other players, and there's no way to automatically protect people from that. Also it's harder to learn from, whereas once a person realizes they've overbid an infinite supply, that kind of lesson about looking before you leap really sticks with you.
So there you go. Hopefully that provides a bit of clarity. No one wants newbies to misunderstand the price of steel. But there have been explicit tips in the newspaper, the msg of the day, and (thanks to some players) in the faxes. That's a good way for people to learn, better than forcing their hand.
eta: Hmm, so that's what I call a "short" answer, huh?
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Guest
Ah, I see =) In that case though, I'd really love to see the NPC's infinite supplies listed at their proper place when sorting things by quali/price.
The reason steel above 135 actually sells to newbie players (and sometimes to tired oldtimers in need of sleep ) is really because the NPC's price is at the bottom of the page. When the page is sorted with lowest prices on top, and shows the seemingly best price to be 140, you really don't expect to find a 135 at the bottom of the page, because it's... err.. "out of place" down there ?
So I'll disagree with it standing out, because it's at the wrong place, and it doesn't visually stand out by being in bold or having bikini dancers point at it with large blinking arrow signs reading "Cheap NPC Steel here".
But at the same time "if you actually look for it", yes, you definitely find it
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Thank you for taking the time to explain things =) It is indeed a better way for people to learn, than forcing their hand. I however still think it's easy to miss the NPC in the heat of the action, sometimes. Like when you miscalculated a planned upgrade because of a levelup, and you need a quick emergency re-supply of steel, with the pressure of your production units sitting idle and doing nothing while you shop.
KnollsThe NPC listing stands out fairly well if you actually look for it
The reason steel above 135 actually sells to newbie players (and sometimes to tired oldtimers in need of sleep
) is really because the NPC's price is at the bottom of the page. When the page is sorted with lowest prices on top, and shows the seemingly best price to be 140, you really don't expect to find a 135 at the bottom of the page, because it's... err.. "out of place" down there ?So I'll disagree with it standing out, because it's at the wrong place, and it doesn't visually stand out by being in bold or having bikini dancers point at it with large blinking arrow signs reading "Cheap NPC Steel here".
But at the same time "if you actually look for it", yes, you definitely find it
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Thank you for taking the time to explain things =) It is indeed a better way for people to learn, than forcing their hand. I however still think it's easy to miss the NPC in the heat of the action, sometimes. Like when you miscalculated a planned upgrade because of a levelup, and you need a quick emergency re-supply of steel, with the pressure of your production units sitting idle and doing nothing while you shop.
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Guest
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Guest
I guess what stands out to one is not so much to another. For me, being the only row without a hyperlink on the name is kind of a standout.Soul Systems wrote:When the page is sorted with lowest prices on top, and shows the seemingly best price to be 140, you really don't expect to find a 135 at the bottom of the page, because it's... err.. "out of place" down there ?
But even that notwithstanding, you made a small factual error there. When you sort by price, the NPC supply shows at the bottom of the page and where 135 sorts. So in that case it's actually listed twice per page. If it's the cheapest offer, it appears both at the top and at the bottom too.
That said, I'm never opposed to bikini dancers.
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Guest
I like this answer really much. these are good reasons. thanks for the answers also. and i noticed one thing also on newbie which most of them never like to read much, not even the tutorial. they just want to start out without know anything which make everything upside down. when i start out i read a lot in the forum mostly by you Knoll, all the information and tips.Knolls wrote:Thank you guys for reminding me to take another peek at the "Refused Suggestions" sticky. It doesn't explain nearly as well as I thought it did. I'll think about updating it later today.
For now, a couple short answers:
Why the NPC prices don't move
The reason the NPCs exist in the first place is to provide a hard limit on how much people have to spend for necessary basic goods. The way the numbers lined up, they are almost guaranteed to be necessary as players get larger and use more and more of them.
If the price of Steel was to move up, you might get more people moving in to produce but the NPC would still be providing a lot. The net effect would be slower growth for everybody (as expansion is thereby more expensive) and a profit boost for steelmakers. Since there are already plenty of products less beneficial than steel, that doesn't seem necessary.
Why there isn't a hard cap on selling above the NPC
It's rather a few reasons. Firstly, there are no hard caps on price setting anywhere in the market. And while it needn't be difficult to code, helping people who haven't bothered to look isn't all that great of a public service to make the effort worthwhile.
Secondly, you can only take "protecting people from their mistakes" so far. The NPC listing stands out fairly well if you actually look for it, and learning to check the prices and volumes (even learning the hard way) is a far better lesson than simply what to price steel at.
A listing can also get stranded simply by being too high above other players, and there's no way to automatically protect people from that. Also it's harder to learn from, whereas once a person realizes they've overbid an infinite supply, that kind of lesson about looking before you leap really sticks with you.
So there you go. Hopefully that provides a bit of clarity. No one wants newbies to misunderstand the price of steel. But there have been explicit tips in the newspaper, the msg of the day, and (thanks to some players) in the faxes. That's a good way for people to learn, better than forcing their hand.
eta: Hmm, so that's what I call a "short" answer, huh?
Then worst thing is newbie don't look for faxes. I remember when i started, the fax are really complicating for new comers and if we know nothings about the products yet it is worst.
EDIT : I think should closed this thread now.
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Guest
KnollsWhen you sort by price, the NPC supply shows at the bottom of the page and where 135 sorts. So in that case it's actually listed twice per page.
With (a french) IE6 & Win 2K, it does not. When you sort by price, it's only listed once per page, at the bottom. I guess it qualifies as a bug then.
If the intended way of showing NPCs is double listed, it sheds a whole different light on this thread, and I think it's already good enough to protect newbies (and tired oldtimers alike
). Now it just needs to work for IE =)-
Guest
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Guest
If it's XP, it's likely Windows Update will have offered you a version 7 along the road, but aside from that, it should not make a big difference indeed.
Is it an Internet Explorer 6 you are running as well, or a higher version of IE ? On my Win2K, the highest I can seem to run is IE6, that's why I stoped at that.
Is it an Internet Explorer 6 you are running as well, or a higher version of IE ? On my Win2K, the highest I can seem to run is IE6, that's why I stoped at that.
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Guest
Something about what you're saying Soul doesn't quite sound right. Would you mind taking a screencap and posting it? Photobucket.com is a good site that doesn't mind external links.
The reason I say that is, listings are determined entirely on the server side, before it hits your browser. The only way to work differently for IE was if it was specifically designed to be different there, and that's just hard to see. If you could post a screenshot (and crop / black out the URL) then I could see exactly what you mean.
The reason I say that is, listings are determined entirely on the server side, before it hits your browser. The only way to work differently for IE was if it was specifically designed to be different there, and that's just hard to see. If you could post a screenshot (and crop / black out the URL) then I could see exactly what you mean.
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Guest
Sure. There you go (cool site, that photobucket, btw):
The screenshot of sorted steel. As you can see, the cheapest steel is 125, then 136, etc, and the NPC is all the way at the bottom, right after an offer at 200 per unit =/
In case it's of any help, my browser's details are right here.
The screenshot of sorted steel. As you can see, the cheapest steel is 125, then 136, etc, and the NPC is all the way at the bottom, right after an offer at 200 per unit =/
In case it's of any help, my browser's details are right here.
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Guest