Improve other economies :)

[Guest]

If in real life the world was deprived of food like in the two years of Kapilands, demand would shoot up like crazy and the prices would be through the roofs, which would attract producers and thus, making their business profitable.

Well, this sounds very nice.
Sadly the truth about the food business is a bit different and this game isn't real life.

Also, after oil, coffee is the second largest commodity market on this planet, this is obviously not due to it's lack of profits.

However, coffee isn't food.

And yes, the game does sell cars slower than milk, but not to the ratios of the real world.

Maybe thats cuz in real life food is sold alot below production price.
Would you do that in this game you would also sell a lot faster.

As much as you would like to deny it, the economic system of Kapilands is evidently flawed. Maybe not to a large extent, but still considerably flawed to the extent that a lot of products only have the purpose of waiting till a contest is held in their name.

Would you please point out where i explicit claim the economic system of Kapilands is perfect?
Shouldn't be to difficult if you claim i did.

In real-life, When 162 million of coffee powder cans are needed, and only 27 are available, prices WILL skyrocket.

Or people would buy something different.



But lets continue about your "real-life" issue...
Please tell me where in real life:
- Groceries sell only 1 item.
- Cattle only produces leather or only produces beef.
- German groceries sell chickens.
- Cars are sold using Quality 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.
- Plantations are maximum 32.000m2.
- You find 32.000m2 groceries.
- Transport to stores in your own country is free of charge.
- Milk is produced from corn, without use of cattle.
- Cattle is produced on corn and water only.
- Cattle/pigs/lambs are stored in a warehouse.


This are only a few things that aren't so very "real-life'ish" in this game...
But to you not being able to make the same profit on food as one could on wardrobes is a huge problem which has to be changed cuz otherwise this game doesn't reflect real-life enough??

How about the suggestion: "Get a life"

i like you xD

[Guest]

Way to miss the point completely, Ronintje.

Your argument is that a game is not exactly like real-life. Agreed. Yet, that is no excuse to be horrendously off the ball-park when creating the game's economy.

And if you do want to argue about real-life. The whole game is based on the fact that virtual human beings, buy virtual products with virtual money to create a virtual economy.

But the point that was completely ignored was, that when the demand was something is higher than it supply by a multitude of exponents, it WILL be bought. As for the substitute product theory,
1. There are no substitutes for coffee. Caffeine is addicting.
2. If there was a substitute available and being brought, why is the demand for coffee still high?

Coffee is just an example, just go to all the agricultural countries and look at the supply and demand statistics. They are pretty high in ratios. With nearly all products having a supply of 1.

And the game does not differentiate between the speed of sales while there is effectively no supply, or while demand is being fulfilled.

Example Product -
Case I:
Supply: 1
Demand: 1,000,000,000

Case II:
Supply: 999,999,999
Demand: 1,000,000,000

In both cases, the product is going to sell at the same prices, and same speeds. The game IS flawed.

One of the most interesting things in an economy is that how it is affected by a change in supply and entry of suppliers into the industry, and the game literally fails at this aspect. For the last year, the top industries has been at the top, and the bottom ones have been at the bottom. It's the most stagnant and static economy with no movement in sectors.

Fix it.

[Guest]

I see the point in wanting supply and demand to work 100% rather than only counting when demand exceeds supply. (I have been saying that for years.) However, it would require a major rewrite of the game code which they programmers will not do.

[Guest]

Way to miss the point completely, Ronintje.

Your argument is that a game is not exactly like real-life. Agreed. Yet, that is no excuse to be horrendously off the ball-park when creating the game's economy.

And if you do want to argue about real-life. The whole game is based on the fact that virtual human beings, buy virtual products with virtual money to create a virtual economy.

But the point that was completely ignored was, that when the demand was something is higher than it supply by a multitude of exponents, it WILL be bought. As for the substitute product theory,
1. There are no substitutes for coffee. Caffeine is addicting.
2. If there was a substitute available and being brought, why is the demand for coffee still high?

Coffee is just an example, just go to all the agricultural countries and look at the supply and demand statistics. They are pretty high in ratios. With nearly all products having a supply of 1.

And the game does not differentiate between the speed of sales while there is effectively no supply, or while demand is being fulfilled.

Example Product -
Case I:
Supply: 1
Demand: 1,000,000,000

Case II:
Supply: 999,999,999
Demand: 1,000,000,000

In both cases, the product is going to sell at the same prices, and same speeds. The game IS flawed.

One of the most interesting things in an economy is that how it is affected by a change in supply and entry of suppliers into the industry, and the game literally fails at this aspect. For the last year, the top industries has been at the top, and the bottom ones have been at the bottom. It's the most stagnant and static economy with no movement in sectors.

Fix it.

i like that. good example. i think it also goes like this if there is very little supply of a product then. almost no one know the product exists. so there is almost no demand for it. but if half the population buys apples. you know for sure the whole populations knows about apples. so now lets say there are a million people.
half of the people who know about a product will buy it (assumption)
so half the population knows about apples and doesn't have any so selling time and highest price should be located when half the demand is filled.
and if 99% of the population already owns apples no one will buy them.


so what i am saying. you need to sell really cheaply so everyone buys a lot until half the demand is reached then max the price and maintain half of the demand


but maybe i am thinking about this all wrong.

[Guest]

I do not know how the game has been programmed. But being a game programmer myself, I'd like to think that assuming an organized design of the game's core programming. This change would take a smart algorithm and some time to think of a balanced equation to make the game FUN as well as EFFECTIVE in supply and demand. But it would not change any part of the game really. It would only include changing the algorithm of retail sales, since the is the only part of the game that uses or requires supply or demand.

The Market on the other hand, is controlled by us, players, so everything works out well out there.

[Guest]

wow this got kinda long.

They should use some silly code such as food prices go up population stops growing!! so then demnad for food stays the same. but if food prices go down the population will grow rapidly based on how low food prices go. and use a 5 day moving average. so if the population grows the demnad gets high for other goods.

or maybe instead of population growth based on food make it based on cost of living.

that way as the comapnies grow the population grows and there will almost alwasy be a reasonable demand for goods that will keep going up. but if all the companies work really hard to make loads of profit!! raising prices really high then the economy could fail!! lol cost of living goes high. demand stops rising people cannot sell high anymore and so prices fall!! lol that would be really cool.

to have there be an economy and as the players prices rise the demand stops rising! and then when players prices fall demand starts rising! and make certian products vary more than others.

like food eveyrone needs food so food demnad will be the same approzimatly. but cars people don't need that many cars so if cost of living goes up demand for cars fall first then food goes down.
but when food goes down people have extra money to buy things like cars! so when food goes down and cars are down population grows.
when population grows the income goes up so people can buy things
they are already buyign food so they demnad more higher products like cars. then companies realize food prices will go up. so they start selling food for more.
but if no one sells food the food price should go up causes a decrease demand for other items.

make cars have a two day moving average
make food have a ten day moving average of a constant
(average price*average quality)*time

so the time it takes to sell is equal to and calculate this for every area like they currently do.

current price*current quality*item constant*demand
timefood= -----------------------------------------------------
(average price over ten days*average quality over ten days*supply)

and the averages on the bottom would be averg price over two days for cars. and average price for ten days for food. so the food market would stay more steady because people need food.

demand would be something like this is where some time should go
demand for food is 1per person
demand for cars is 1 per 1000 people
and do this for all items.

and population growth is something like
a percentage that we want the comapnies to grow by each day
5% double every twenty days about or maybe less.
x=(cost of living current) /(cost of living ten day average))
1 - 0.997*e^(-(1/2) (-1 + x)^2) (-1 + x)
that i feel would be the perfect equation! i think but well anywasy i probably should get back to my homework

[Guest]

1. There are no substitutes for coffee. Caffeine is addicting.

Kapi Kola

But being a game programmer myself,

Then why not create the perfect game yourself, i'm getting the idea it isn't difficult at all to do when i read the comments in this forum, however i rarely see anybody claiming he is doing that.

I'd like to think that assuming an organized design of the game's core programming. This change would take a smart algorithm and some time to think of a balanced equation to make the game FUN as well as EFFECTIVE in supply and demand. But it would not change any part of the game really. It would only include changing the algorithm of retail sales, since the is the only part of the game that uses or requires supply or demand.

The Market on the other hand, is controlled by us, players, so everything works out well out there.

Great suggestion.
However, why are you posting that in here instead of following the forum rules which clearly state you should contact the crew with suggestions for new games, maybe you can even get a job and create it so all of us can enjoy it?


See, here is a small problem with many suggestions in here.
First the people suggesting refuse to read the forum rules which contain many suggestions which will never be implemented.
Second they suggest things that should be suggested to the developers instead of being posted in here.

[Guest]

No rule states that a general discussion about the game cannot be held here.

About the programming, I am into war-based strategy, not so much into economy. So, no, I will not make a game based on this idea.

The everything discussed here, I believe, comes down to Elasticity. Different products are supposed to have different elasticities of demand, and this aspect is either no hardcoded into the game, or so insignificant that it requires change.

[Guest]

but, if you have a discussion with Ronintje, it can quickly get to war-based strategy, even if the topic is economics

[Guest]

but, if you have a discussion with Ronintje, it can quickly get to war-based strategy, even if the topic is economics

You got my vote and thumbs up

[Guest]

No rule states that a general discussion about the game cannot be held here.

Indeed, i thought it was the suggestion and proposal part of the forum we were talking.
All the suggestions seem to have confused me a bit


Maybe this thread should be transferred to the suggestion and proposal part of the forum cuz it is obvious more related to suggestion/proposal then general stuff

After doing that i would be right again

[Guest]

but, if you have a discussion with Ronintje, it can quickly get to war-based strategy, even if the topic is economics

Ssst...don't tell everybody the secret

There are still children in here who think whining and acting like a spoiled child is discussing

[Guest]

Forget steel. Lets help other products grow, anyone with me? We can start by buying as much cars as we can for very high price .

how will this solve fixed the NPC price....

just this kind comments makes me laugh

only that person who buys out car market than resells it higher, will try to make profit on short run expecting that car producers wont be able to supply fast enough fair based cars ... btw did u ever think some companies might have large stock go ahead try to buy it for more than im selling in my shop can u handle 60k cars same thing goes about high Q wood just ask wardrobe producers... lol

[Guest]

I dont think the wardrobes buisness needs to be destroyed, because we will have a "Blackout Friday"

I think we should all play our role into improving other economies in Kapilands, giving it more diversity.
The front page says we can be in whatever buisness we want, yet the economy says we all do wardrobes. So we do.
In a real economy, this will not happen. Even though absolutely every business cannot be profitable, we can do better in this economy to ensure there is more than ten good industries.

I think that we should start with France and go through products. We can kickstart the economy completely. As it should have been.
You may seem sceptical about this, but we must try. Dont just sit back and dismiss this idea as a failure, try it.
We cant go into the really risky investments and we will not try a suicide economy. Just simply bump up the products that are sitting in the shade, not on the cliff threatening to jump. Put the economy into the sun. Try the Kapi-Revolution.
Ron, BE NICE!

Viva le Revolution!

[Guest]

Well, we could start if I had some partners. First, we can start with cars....

Just found it in my docs folder after looking over all old documents...

Link to direct image file (Latvia server)

Link to direct image file (imageshack server)



For ones who want to create cabrios themselves. From a to z