I just checked my fixed assets ranking and I jumped up 8 or 9 position overnight to page 1 now
Further checking on the top 50 players revealed that some very high ranking and senior players have gone from the list (for example, POWERBANK).
Can somebody tell me what happened?
Is it related to Socro's comment about fishy contest in REALM 2?
Hope to hear something for anybody who have knowledge about what's going on
Cheers,
AI
Realm 2 top players gone?
Moderator: moderators
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Guest
Just seen the post before and I suspect that it is related to something happened in R1. They got banned because of "unfair trade".
I quote and unquote these words because it is strange. Just get back to ECON101, you can understand that exchanging the "goods" is the basics of economics, even up to mordern days that "currency" is widely used, the principles is not violated. Just imagined that you use your manpower to get "currency" and then exchange for goods and necessities, "currency" is only to denote the purchase power of a people but not preventing people from trade. As you might have seen in the news, everytime there is hyperinflation, people switch to barter ("goods" trading) but not stick to "currency" trading, so if you are thinking that they are doing barter with nominal amount is a kind of "cheating", I strongly recommand you going back to understand the basics of the commercial world, including both ECON101 and ACCT101.
If they are actually exchanging goods for goods at fair value, they are actually doing barter with real economics substances (check IFRS or GAAP for economics substances to make sure you know what it means), unless you have stated in the rule that barter is forbidded, I cannot see a point why barter with economics substance should be banned in this way.
There are other business simulation available on-line recently, if Kapilands wish to maintain the competitive advantage over the other, I strong recommand the leaders of the game to think about how to make a sense out of the game.
I quote and unquote these words because it is strange. Just get back to ECON101, you can understand that exchanging the "goods" is the basics of economics, even up to mordern days that "currency" is widely used, the principles is not violated. Just imagined that you use your manpower to get "currency" and then exchange for goods and necessities, "currency" is only to denote the purchase power of a people but not preventing people from trade. As you might have seen in the news, everytime there is hyperinflation, people switch to barter ("goods" trading) but not stick to "currency" trading, so if you are thinking that they are doing barter with nominal amount is a kind of "cheating", I strongly recommand you going back to understand the basics of the commercial world, including both ECON101 and ACCT101.
If they are actually exchanging goods for goods at fair value, they are actually doing barter with real economics substances (check IFRS or GAAP for economics substances to make sure you know what it means), unless you have stated in the rule that barter is forbidded, I cannot see a point why barter with economics substance should be banned in this way.
There are other business simulation available on-line recently, if Kapilands wish to maintain the competitive advantage over the other, I strong recommand the leaders of the game to think about how to make a sense out of the game.
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Guest
Hey... please do not mix things up.
Aalborg was talking about R2.
You refer to two players in R1. That case has nothing to do with those cheaters that got banned in R2.
If I get your arguments right, then you think, that those players should not have been banned.
Well... that means, that you accept that players get a good ranking in a contest due to their cheating. You accept that players cheat on other players to get a good contest-result.
But how can we combine that with this complaint?
The consequence would be stopping the contests. Would you like that?
And of course, I know what you mean. I get your point, believe me.
But to be honest: We don't have got "real" economics in here. This is only a simulation... a game. We cannot implement all ideas from the "real" economy. This would make the game much too complex.
And a game needs some regulations to guarantee that all players have the same basis and can play fair.
@ Aalborg:
Well... it makes absolutely no difference if an old company or a new company cheats. Old companies don't get a "bonus" for being old.
If we detect unallowed trades those companies get banned.
I think it cannot be a bad to post the rules again. In my opinion they are very clear...
[quote="Rules of Kapilands"]Rules & Regulations
Aalborg was talking about R2.
You refer to two players in R1. That case has nothing to do with those cheaters that got banned in R2.
If I get your arguments right, then you think, that those players should not have been banned.
Well... that means, that you accept that players get a good ranking in a contest due to their cheating. You accept that players cheat on other players to get a good contest-result.
But how can we combine that with this complaint?
The consequence would be stopping the contests. Would you like that?
And of course, I know what you mean. I get your point, believe me.
But to be honest: We don't have got "real" economics in here. This is only a simulation... a game. We cannot implement all ideas from the "real" economy. This would make the game much too complex.
And a game needs some regulations to guarantee that all players have the same basis and can play fair.
@ Aalborg:
Well... it makes absolutely no difference if an old company or a new company cheats. Old companies don't get a "bonus" for being old.
If we detect unallowed trades those companies get banned.
I think it cannot be a bad to post the rules again. In my opinion they are very clear...
[quote="Rules of Kapilands"]Rules & Regulations
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Guest
Talking about realm2, I am very interested in 1 detail: all these big players (I could mention 5 names of guys who were in the first page of FA, 1 of them was the top) were caught cheating at the same time? I completely agree that if they were cheating, they must have been banned, no matter if they were old, new, big, little companies. But, they were all banned at the same time. Have you guys just turned on the cheater detection program or it is a big coincidence?
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Guest
I promised to shut up and I am really trying...-
Guest
I was referring to another "cheat"post, I was saying there that I just don't agree with some things said about cheating , but I know it won't make much difference to the cheating policy on kapilands what i say, I just wish it would be more clear what is cheating, I am sure that there are companies that are accused of cheating that werent aware that they did so, they didn't try to cheat, and I wonder if those companies just get banned in an instance, or do they get the chance to explain before they are deleted?
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Guest
Generally before someone gets banned there were multiple events. They aren't warned but the idea is that if it happened more than once it couldn't have been an accident.
As a guide, if you see something on the market that looks too good to be true, it probably is and you should pass it. It wouldn't be unheard of for someone to get in trouble for grabbing that 1c steel, if it happened enough, even if they had nothing to do with putting it there.
As a guide, if you see something on the market that looks too good to be true, it probably is and you should pass it. It wouldn't be unheard of for someone to get in trouble for grabbing that 1c steel, if it happened enough, even if they had nothing to do with putting it there.
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Guest
@ PMM: Due to recent events ingame and a posting in the forums we started an intense control of companies that participated in the contest.
Especially the top-players got controlled several times... also manually.
I guess this answers your question.
I am speaking in general now:
Several companies traded with each other at extremely low prices, others exploited other accounts, others had several multis to supply them and so on...
Well - that's not all kinds of unallowed activities... There are even more, but I don't think it's necessary to go more into detail.
Those things cannot and will not be tolerated!
Sometimes it is difficult to notice something like that. Then a very close look is needed to identify such unallowed businesses.
But: They have not been allowed ever in the history of Kapilands!
Some players might have been lucky that they did not get detected at the first control, but I think you can see what a second control can result in.
@ sally: Welcome back.
Let me answer some of your questions.
There is an old legal sentence: "Ignorance is no excuse."
Yet we do not want to sound too hard.
There are the rules that all players accepted when they registered. I quoted them several times on this board and even if someone forgets the rules he can easily check them on www.kapilands.com .
The rules tell us about several things that are forbidden and are seen as "cheating". Let me explain them a little bit more detailed.
[quote="Rules of Kapilands"]
Especially the top-players got controlled several times... also manually.
I guess this answers your question.
I am speaking in general now:
Several companies traded with each other at extremely low prices, others exploited other accounts, others had several multis to supply them and so on...
Well - that's not all kinds of unallowed activities... There are even more, but I don't think it's necessary to go more into detail.
Those things cannot and will not be tolerated!
Sometimes it is difficult to notice something like that. Then a very close look is needed to identify such unallowed businesses.
But: They have not been allowed ever in the history of Kapilands!
Some players might have been lucky that they did not get detected at the first control, but I think you can see what a second control can result in.
@ sally: Welcome back.
Let me answer some of your questions.
There is an old legal sentence: "Ignorance is no excuse."
Yet we do not want to sound too hard.
There are the rules that all players accepted when they registered. I quoted them several times on this board and even if someone forgets the rules he can easily check them on www.kapilands.com .
The rules tell us about several things that are forbidden and are seen as "cheating". Let me explain them a little bit more detailed.
[quote="Rules of Kapilands"]
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Guest
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Guest
well since the rule is not clearly defined does a player get a warning first that he has reached a dangerous area or does a player get instantly banned?I can give you a hint, but that is not a rule. It's only a hint.
I have had to sit and revise certain deals that i have (deals that i have setup with some players with an honest approach in the sense that i dont personally know these players and hard work to score a really good price - which as far as i'm concerned is part of the excitement of the game) with some players just because there is a possibility that those deals might be looked at as cheating.
At the end of the day i have spent alot of time and effort in this game trying to play as honest as i can and trying to score as many good deals as i can through negotiations etc. For me all of the above posts translates to the fact that a player is discouraged to persuade other players to sell something to them at a really cheap price. There is no motivation for player interaction. If i wanted to sell something at 10% less than the market i might as well put it in the market.
The other day i bought a 810 mine for 20Mio. I put it in the market for 40Mio and it got sold. Should i be worried that i cheated somehow? Would i be instantly banned? I think that rule should be more clearly defined, unless you plan to warn me that i am crossing the line.
I love the kapiland game and i will continue to play it even if it means that i only have to sell to the npc to avoid getting banned.
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Guest
I concur fully with AivaRoss opinion. Ever since the incident, I have to look through all of my business partners contracts and raise the price closer to market price (some of them are a very long time business partner-I don't know them and nothing related to me whatsoever-where I hardly earn lower price from better negotiation skill that I have).
From the start, I believe that Kapilands is the best economic simulation for me to play to sharpen my business skill and intuition (I have a plan to start my own business in real life). I have been playing this game since FEB 08 and put a lot of effort, time and not to mentioned money as well (to buy coins for my VIP membership).
However, following the most recent situation, Kapilands has put a lot of restriction where I personally feel too much.
Negotiation is the most vital point in doing business and if I can do my best negotiation and get and agreement as well as low price from my business partner, then I believe that I rightfully earn it. However, since the cheating scare is up in the air, as sally also mentioned, the cheating definition is quite clear in the rules, but the implementation needs more clear guidelines, everybody revising the price and removing part of the fun in negotiation, just to avoid being banned.
Please kindly reconsider the rules (i.e., add more clear implementation guidelines), otherwise, Kapilands will be see a reduction in active player.
Another thing is everytime there is an incident in Kapilands, the admin/moderator are not so open about what happened and left many people wondering what really happened (there are some thread on this issue).
Just my 2 cents and all my critics are for the best of this game itself.
Cheers,
AI
From the start, I believe that Kapilands is the best economic simulation for me to play to sharpen my business skill and intuition (I have a plan to start my own business in real life). I have been playing this game since FEB 08 and put a lot of effort, time and not to mentioned money as well (to buy coins for my VIP membership).
However, following the most recent situation, Kapilands has put a lot of restriction where I personally feel too much.
Negotiation is the most vital point in doing business and if I can do my best negotiation and get and agreement as well as low price from my business partner, then I believe that I rightfully earn it. However, since the cheating scare is up in the air, as sally also mentioned, the cheating definition is quite clear in the rules, but the implementation needs more clear guidelines, everybody revising the price and removing part of the fun in negotiation, just to avoid being banned.
Please kindly reconsider the rules (i.e., add more clear implementation guidelines), otherwise, Kapilands will be see a reduction in active player.
Another thing is everytime there is an incident in Kapilands, the admin/moderator are not so open about what happened and left many people wondering what really happened (there are some thread on this issue).
Just my 2 cents and all my critics are for the best of this game itself.
Cheers,
AI
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Guest
Sorry, but this is definitely not correct.Aalborg Industries wrote:However, following the most recent situation, Kapilands has put a lot of restriction where I personally feel too much.
The rules have neither been changed nor restricted.
The only thing that changed is that this cheater-topic moved more into your focus. Why? Because also Top100-players got banned due to massive cheating.
In the past there have been the same rules and also the same "codex" of when companies got banned and when not. Yet most cheaters have been small ones or at least middle large companies.
Now also top-players started cheating and thus got banned.
But the "restriction" you speak about did not occur.
Well... we also discussed this a little bit earlier in this thread.Aalborg Industries wrote:However, since the cheating scare is up in the air, as sally also mentioned, the cheating definition is quite clear in the rules, but the implementation needs more clear guidelines, everybody revising the price and removing part of the fun in negotiation, just to avoid being banned.
The clearer the "borders" of acceptable prices is the more people will lower their prices to these borders.
I repeat my example:
Let's say, steel Q0 at 50 Caps is the lowest price that is allowed. Then you could sell it at that price and you would play "fair". Selling below (e. g. 49.99 Caps) would lead to a ban.
Do you think this would help?
It's not that easy... Because in my opinion there is no noticable difference between 49.99 Caps and 50 Caps.But you ask me to set a clear minimum price. And this leads to the problem that also 0.01 Caps lower than this price would lead to a ban.
As I wrote before: The rules did not get changed.Aalborg Industries wrote:Please kindly reconsider the rules (i.e., add more clear implementation guidelines), otherwise, Kapilands will be see a reduction in active player.
So we do not need to reconsider them.They are exactely the same since you registered (and also since Kapilands started).
In my opinion nobody needs to state his justification in these boards.Aalborg Industries wrote:Another thing is everytime there is an incident in Kapilands, the admin/moderator are not so open about what happened and left many people wondering what really happened (there are some thread on this issue).
And I also think that nobody has the right to know why a company got banned beside the company itself.
But because I recognized that you all are now a little bit afraid (which you do not need to be) because also top-players got banned, I will give you some more details.
We are not talking about selling steel to another company at e. g. 100 Caps or buying wardrobes at e. g. 1600 Caps.
We do not talk about sligthly lower prices.
We talk about extremes.
Such like:
or:Company A sold (to company B):
amount in Caps/ unit price/ amount
920000000.00 / 1000 / 920000 Water
Company A bought (from company B):
amount in Caps/ unit price/ amount
3234.06 / 0.01 323406 Wood
2000.00 / 0.01 200000 Wood
3000.00 / 0.01 300000 Wood
Other companies supplied their multis with extreme low priced contracts or exploited other companies.Company C bought (from company D):
amount in Caps/ unit price/ amount
1000000000 / 100000 / 10000 Steel
1000000000 / 100000 / 10000 Steel
Some sold coins at 1 Cap each...
Well... I could give several more examples but I think this should be enough.
Maybe it got a little bit clearer.
Players with normal prices do not need to fear to get banned.
Regards
GoldenEye