I'd like to ask a few small favors:
1. Please keep raising prices until we all make our own power. This sounds fun to me, though I would like it if you showed me how to retail power first.
Here's a handy reference: If you make more selling power then your customers do selling their products, thats funny. If your customers have to sell their prices to the retail giants at a cost where they lose money, that, well that is hilarious.
2. Please continue to put power on the market at greater then NPC prices. Every time you do this I get a chuckle, and a kitten gets it's wings.
No seriously, I see that this is part symbolic protest of the whole system of trying to do stuff for results and such and partly a means to enshrine your wares. I appreciate deep thinking like that.
I have to say, the laughs I get from this game are priceless - cattle sales, EZ and all that - when I get down I just go read about the latest plan in the forums. If you are having a very bad day, go check out their website. I swear, you will get at least a smirk out of it.
Gotta go do stuff. Thanks for your consideration.
Humbly,
Capi
Dear Power Producers
Moderator: moderators
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Guest
I get my first 1000sqm building today. It has been expanding for over a week now. It's a PoWeR StAtIoN!!! 
I'm getting a few more buildings this week as well
. A couple of wells 
, and a couple more PoWeR StAtIoNs!!! I make a lot of different things but the first thing I like to over produce is PoWeR in my PoWeR StAtIoNs!!!
I don't like selling power
because if my plan comes together I will need to buy power eventually 
.I'm really enjoying the expansion of my PoWeR StAtIoNs!!!, and love pasting the words PoWeR StAtIoN everywhere!!! !
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Guest
It is quite strange that the prices for raw materials (power, stone, wood) are very high in our game. In the second world of the German version they are lower, even though the world is older than the English one here. And the demand is definitely higher.
It seems to me that only very few people want to produce raw materials and sell them. But it would be perfect for players that don
It seems to me that only very few people want to produce raw materials and sell them. But it would be perfect for players that don
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Guest
I don't think power production is at the origin of anything in this case. It seems it's rather the raise in the price of stones and wood which encouraged a lot of people who already had the buildings, to make their own. It seems power & water raised from there, as a further consequence, along with other notable products from mines & plantations, especially seeds, minerals, and iron.
Imagine someone in a plantation buisness, growing us cheap seeds, or fruits for juices, or cotton for the textile industry. They just need seeds and water...
...now imagine this person switches to wood production because it raised so crazy when everyone came back home from holidays to cash-overflowing babysitted accounts, and decided to expand. By producing wood, our plantation manager still needs seeds and water, but they now also need 50 power units per wood, which is actually quite much...
... now imagine how big a single plantation buisness can really be...
... now imagine how many people with plantation buisnesses -as their own end product- switched to wood because it's more profitable ? That's enough sqm to justify a power need increase, I think. It's almost like a new power hungry contest product had been introduced.
Imagine someone in a plantation buisness, growing us cheap seeds, or fruits for juices, or cotton for the textile industry. They just need seeds and water...
...now imagine this person switches to wood production because it raised so crazy when everyone came back home from holidays to cash-overflowing babysitted accounts, and decided to expand. By producing wood, our plantation manager still needs seeds and water, but they now also need 50 power units per wood, which is actually quite much...
... now imagine how big a single plantation buisness can really be...
... now imagine how many people with plantation buisnesses -as their own end product- switched to wood because it's more profitable ? That's enough sqm to justify a power need increase, I think. It's almost like a new power hungry contest product had been introduced.
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Guest
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That's the kind of strategy that would absolutely not work. Within seconds, every last one of the market speculators would have bought out your milions of power, and re-put it on the market at market prices. You would raise the volume of exchanged power, but those who would buy it from you wouldn't neccesarly buy it to directly use it themselves.buy all the power on the market. Then (...) sell it for .09 or something thats more reasonable
With the market at 0.14 like it is now, people can already make a (small) benefit buying 0.12 offers and putting them back on the market, at market price (with 0.126 actually in their pocket).
If you sell at 0.11, they can either make a larger profit reselling at market price, either sell below market price at 0.13, still making a small profit per unit but processing very large volumes particularly fast (since it's below market price).
Now imagine what happens if you release a large amount of 0.09 power in a 0.14 market ?
From my own market observations, the only efficient way to reduce power costs, is to make "blockade" offers just 0.01 below the market price, and progressively lower the market that way. For example, with a market at 0.14, introduce 200 or 300 million units of power at 0.13
That kind of volume will hold up from a half to a whole day, and therefore dissuade people familiar with the power market from introducing new offers at a higher price than you, because to get their offer's money, they would have to wait (at least) until your blockade batch is entirely sold.
A few people were making such batches this summer, the most notable of whom was Shura (sp ?). I don't think they were loosing money in it either, because most of their own supplies appeared to come from contracts directly with power producers, at 0.01/02ish cheaper than their market sales (again, the strategy of very small profits per unit, but applied to immense volumes). They simply acted as a centralised re-seller. Even visually, the market itself looked different after a while, with very few offers, but of very large volume each. These days, it's rather many offers of small volumes (i.e. none about 100 milion units), which don't hold as well against price escalation.
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Varg, it's not your oligopoly power that's driving this. With wood in the mid-50's, a power price of 0.15 is about right. What's driving this is the incredibly high price of wood, which I don't understand, although I'm certainly benefitting from it.
As to Capitalis' complaint, it's simply a fact that only a few products in the game are worth making from a profit perspective - but they are very profitable. This drives up the prices of raw materials, which makes many other products flat-out money losers because Kapi prices don't respond to shortages. In the real world, if there was virtually no food other than fruit on the market, food prices would go up bigtime. The inhabitants of Kapilands, however, are happy to starve as long as they have wardrobes containing leather jackets - but no pants. They also buy lots of gas, perhaps dreaming about driving the cars they don't own. At least they can get good use of all the TV sets.
As to Capitalis' complaint, it's simply a fact that only a few products in the game are worth making from a profit perspective - but they are very profitable. This drives up the prices of raw materials, which makes many other products flat-out money losers because Kapi prices don't respond to shortages. In the real world, if there was virtually no food other than fruit on the market, food prices would go up bigtime. The inhabitants of Kapilands, however, are happy to starve as long as they have wardrobes containing leather jackets - but no pants. They also buy lots of gas, perhaps dreaming about driving the cars they don't own. At least they can get good use of all the TV sets.
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Guest
I sometimes have this feeling that stones and power are the hinges that this economy turns on. The Giants need lots of em, and as their profits grow, so will their appetite, and willingness to pay.
Still, this looks like a bleak future to me: we will no longer call it kapiland - we could call it "Make Stones and Power for Giant Companies", because that will be the only option left to anyone who is not already one of the giants. To me, this looks like the death of Kapilands - or at least this server anyway. I don't think we are likely to get another "English" server any time soon.
Probability says that server death will occur at some point. While Kapi is a good set of checks and balances, it has limits. Basic flaws that do not matter enough to break stuff in the first months can and will lead to deadlock.
Still, I guess what bugs me is that certain actions speed this up: messing with the hinges, and even just paying those prices, contribute to server death. I don't want to get all ethical or something, but 1% greater profit in a game with other options to get the same result that leads to a lot of other people losing their fun ... is just kinda ignorant.
Want a recipe to fix it? It is a shame to complain with no solution:
1. Make your own stones and power as much as possible. Don't be part of the problem.
2. If you are a large player, remember that small choices you make buying raw materials can effect the overall health of the server. You don't want to be king of nothing.
3. If you are a power seller, be aware of the effects power price has. If you want a line to use as a reference - prices over .11 start killing industries. Be a responsible steward.
4. If you can afford it, the "blockade" approach above does help some.
5. If you have surplus or a hoard of it, sell it on contract at responsible prices. Goods that are not on the market are immune to speculators.
6. If the prices for something you need to keep a building producing are high enough, consider leaving it idle; if you pay that price today, you are setting yourself up to pay it every day.
7. If for some reason you are a large player who is paying more for stuff on purpose to "eliminate long run competition", please consider if you really want to play all by yourself.
I guess I could keep going. In the end, it is simple:
Be aware of the effects of your actions. Like the Tick said, "I can't let them blow up the Earth, thats where I keep my stuff."
Still, this looks like a bleak future to me: we will no longer call it kapiland - we could call it "Make Stones and Power for Giant Companies", because that will be the only option left to anyone who is not already one of the giants. To me, this looks like the death of Kapilands - or at least this server anyway. I don't think we are likely to get another "English" server any time soon.
Probability says that server death will occur at some point. While Kapi is a good set of checks and balances, it has limits. Basic flaws that do not matter enough to break stuff in the first months can and will lead to deadlock.
Still, I guess what bugs me is that certain actions speed this up: messing with the hinges, and even just paying those prices, contribute to server death. I don't want to get all ethical or something, but 1% greater profit in a game with other options to get the same result that leads to a lot of other people losing their fun ... is just kinda ignorant.
Want a recipe to fix it? It is a shame to complain with no solution:
1. Make your own stones and power as much as possible. Don't be part of the problem.
2. If you are a large player, remember that small choices you make buying raw materials can effect the overall health of the server. You don't want to be king of nothing.
3. If you are a power seller, be aware of the effects power price has. If you want a line to use as a reference - prices over .11 start killing industries. Be a responsible steward.
4. If you can afford it, the "blockade" approach above does help some.
5. If you have surplus or a hoard of it, sell it on contract at responsible prices. Goods that are not on the market are immune to speculators.
6. If the prices for something you need to keep a building producing are high enough, consider leaving it idle; if you pay that price today, you are setting yourself up to pay it every day.
7. If for some reason you are a large player who is paying more for stuff on purpose to "eliminate long run competition", please consider if you really want to play all by yourself.
I guess I could keep going. In the end, it is simple:
Be aware of the effects of your actions. Like the Tick said, "I can't let them blow up the Earth, thats where I keep my stuff."
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Capitalis, it's a market. No player can change what's going on much. In Kapi, there are a few extremely profitable chains and you can't expect people to do anything else unless they get a similar return. Really, why should a stone producer accept less profit than he can get making wood? Even if there are a few who will sacrifice part of their success to improve the profits of some of the less beneficial chains their efforts will be negated by all the other profit-seekers, who will stop building mines or use them for other purposes, reducing the stone supply and driving the price back up.
By my calcs, the price of wood should be about 2/3s of what it is now, and if it falls back the prices of stones and power will fall - somewhat. CMB thinks otherwise, though, and he knows more about this than I do. But generically, the prices of all basic materials must remain high until all the high-profit business become saturated with supply greater than (and perhaps MUCH greater than) demand.
By my calcs, the price of wood should be about 2/3s of what it is now, and if it falls back the prices of stones and power will fall - somewhat. CMB thinks otherwise, though, and he knows more about this than I do. But generically, the prices of all basic materials must remain high until all the high-profit business become saturated with supply greater than (and perhaps MUCH greater than) demand.