Kapi as it stands - A critical view

What's going on in Kapilands?
This section is for all about the game itself.

Moderator: moderators

Guest

Kapi as it stands - A critical view

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 07:06

To start with, I am a wood producer - at around 125k Q9 a day. The rise in prices has not hurt me at all. Still, from where I sit, something does not sit right with the price of wood:

At current prices, it is no longer be possible for small or medium sized players to effectively enter or participate in the furniture market.

As it stands, you need at least a Q of 5 to make anything off wardrobes. To make a profit equal to selling stones, you need a Q of 8. To make a profit equal to someone selling Q0 wood, you need a Q of 9.5 (not possible, but thats what it would take). This all assumes that you get this Q buying the wood at 52 and steel at 135 (Q0 these days).

Here's another fact: used in wardrobes sold to CMB, (i.e. at + 50Q) wood is worth a maximum of .625 per Q and steel 2 per Q. That means those contract offers you see at those rates in the faxes are from buyers who are able accept not making any profit from the Q they buy, and able to wait for their research to progress so that they can avoid rounding errors (that is when you have extra Q in a produce that does not get used).

Additionally, the average sale price for wardrobes is very messed up. I will do without the math, but no one should sell at anywhere near those prices. Even Q10 Wardrobes sold in retail make less then power plants. The only players wardrobes at those prices are worth selling for, even at the wisest price (about 150% of market average, just in case you are curious) are huge players - retail is not hurt by level penalties or expansion penalties, and does not even really start making money until you reach 300m2 or so with full ads.

Add this all up:

Basically, you need to have major research in Wardrobes, or you are out now.

Unless you are HUGE and have HUGE retail stores, you are better off selling your retail stores and building plantations.

---------------------------------------------

Don't get me wrong - I have enough research to make money. I can stay in if I want to. Still, in a way it is part of the end of an era:

For a long time, wardrobes were one of the golden routes for new players trying to get going. CMB's prices, seeds, and reliability as a customer provided much opportunity.

Another of the golden routes has also narrowed recently - the gas market is no longer an easy entry business.

Other routes are threatened: contests are not .. as reliable, or even present.

In the end, these doors not being as wide, well, we will see what it does.

----------------------------------------

Enough of my rambling - why does it always happen when I should be asleep? ;)

- Capi

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 11:56

If I understand you correct, you say that wardrobes are not the golden route for new players, because the wood price has gone up. So what will happen:

I think players will be producing wood as an entry business. This brings the wood price down again and wardrobes get profitable again.
Capitalis wrote:Other routes are threatened: contests are not .. as reliable, or even present.
I think this is the first week that there is no contest since I play Kapilands (not 100% sure) Let

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 12:24

Im in the furniture industry, I sell Q2 Wardrobes for 1,700c. I am movng up slowly on research, last week it as Qaulity 1.

The furniture market is safe though, with exceptions.

Stay away from any furniture that isn't Wardrobes or tables. I have found no buyers out there.

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 12:38

I will have a 300m2 Joinery when im done with my expansion... I can make a Q4-Q5 i think... Wardrobes
Last edited by Guest on 14.09.2007, 16:11, edited 1 time in total.

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 12:40

selling wardrobes B2B for 1,700 is dumping. You will be better off by selling the raw materials - this means your joinery is DESTROYING VALUE.

as I wrote in the other thread - do not start producing wardrobes until you have your wardrobe research in the high teens. I have q26 and on some days, when the bids for wood skyrocket, I set part of my joinieries idle - I simply have better overall profit by selling some of my q12 wood as raw material to others than produce my q11 wardrobes.

selling wardrobes for 1,700 in retail is a crime and should be punished :evil: Not only you are losing money, but you damage the market in process.

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 14:04

elder is right.

I

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 15:27

The thing about the markets, it doesnt matter what happens to the price of any goods. A change in one will also lead to new opportunities.
As mentioned above, if wardrobes arent profitable anymore due to high wood prices, then the business opportunity opened up would be wood.

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 16:14

Anyway, My RC is a 500m2... it will be an explosion in no time at all.

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 18:05

20 wood 5 steel 600 power.

20*11.80=236
5*20.86=104.3
600*.01=6
Wardrobe Wages=5.69

Total Cost = 351.99

=========
Wardrobes
=========
Selling price = 1,700 (1600 +50Q)
Profit= 1,349.01 (subtract a few dollars for contact sending)
Estimate=1345.00c profit.

=========
Raw materials
=========

20*53.5 (52+.5Q) = 1070
5*134 (132+2Q) = 670
600*.09 (power) = 6
Total Money: 1746

1746/10=174.6 (market fee)

1746-174.6= 1571.4

1571.4-346.30 (Production cost)= 1225.1 Profit.

=======

See, I get over 100c profit off each wardrobe rather then selling raw materials.

=======

Don't listen to the other usinesses, Furniture is more profitable then scraping it all and selling it raw.

========

Sincerly, Breth of African Agriculture, protecting the neglected ones.

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 18:27

But you cannot make the hourly profit that you can on other products.

Example:

1,000 m2 Joinery in Red makes 227 Wardrobes an hour. (227 * 100 profit = 22,700 per hour)
1,000 m2 Well in Yellow makes 731 Oil an hour. (731 * 45 profit = 32,895 per hour)

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 18:42

African Agriculture wrote:20 wood 5 steel 600 power.

20*11.80=236
5*20.86=104.3
600*.01=6
Wardrobe Wages=5.69

Total Cost = 351.99

=========
Wardrobes
=========
Selling price = 1,700 (1600 +50Q)
Profit= 1,349.01 (subtract a few dollars for contact sending)
Estimate=1345.00c profit.

=========
Raw materials
=========

20*53.5 (52+.5Q) = 1070
5*134 (132+2Q) = 670
600*.09 (power) = 6
Total Money: 1746

1746/10=174.6 (market fee)

1746-174.6= 1571.4

1571.4-346.30 (Production cost)= 1225.1 Profit.

=======

See, I get over 100c profit off each wardrobe rather then selling raw materials.
no you didn't get 100 more profit. why did you remove the 10% market fees. you are selling wood with contract which you do not need market fee. and i think you are not producing you own steel and even if you produce you don't need to send it to the market. you can sell it to other player with 133c which is not even 2%. Just for the power you need 10% fees. that is 0.6c.
so, your profit won't be more than 20c than selling the raw material.

you need a joinery and store to sell your own if you do not sell raw material.

joinery cost 200,000c and funiture cost 375,000c.
so you are getting profit of 20c per wardrobe and you are selling at most 80 wardrobe a day with 20m2 which your profit will be 80x20 = 1600caps per day for investment of 200,000+375,000 = 575,000c.

you could probably use that 575,000c to build 7 new plantation which can produce 4200 wood and you can sell these wood to get about 100,000c profit.

Just compare your profit of 1600c and my profit of 100,000c. it is your choice.



or another way you can sell your wardrobe q2 for 2100 in your store which you will get more profit.

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 18:47

African Agriculture @ another thing i found out in your post is you calculated of sell raw material (POWER).

600*0.09 = 6c wrong


600x0.09c = 54c which make more different in the selling and prove that you are losing for sure.


**I am not saying wardrobe are not profitable but i am saying if we can sell it for higher like 2000+100Q in the market the profit will be better.**

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 18:56

=========
Raw materials
=========

20*53.5 (52+.5Q) = 1070 <- sold tru contract
5*134 (132+2Q) = 670 <- sold tru contract
600*.09 (power) = 54 <- sold in the market
Total Money: 1794

54/10=5.4 (market fee aplied to power since its the only thing that is sold in the market)

1794-5.4= 1788.6

1788.6-346.30 (Production cost)= 1442.3 Profit.

comparing with your 1345 from wardrobes and you see that you are losing 97.3 caps per wardrobe.

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 19:03

Interesting discussion, because i am in wood business :) Anybody made accurate calculations about wood and wardrobes ROI (with current market prices)?
For me, whole discussion sounds like agitating to produce more wood witch means - lower wood prices ;) I know, furniture is profitable, but before entering in it, company must be prepared own production buildings, a lot of cash, researches, etc. And if you are not ready, its really better to make some wood :)

Guest

Post by Guest » 14.09.2007, 19:40

Well, i don't have the time to give any figures to back this up, but i am delaying building a planned joinery even though i have enough wood production to do it because i am making so much off the wood. Essentially i am expanding my RCs instead of expanding my wardrobes production. With wood at current prices it is an easy choice.

Post Reply