NOTE TO THREAD USERS: TITLE CHANGE
1st : Increasing wood prices are big companies being unfair?(topic start page 1) CLOSED
2nd: POWER price increase!! Does this spell a market fluctuation?(topic start page 3) CLOSED
3rd: WHICH Syndicates/Individuals are Controlling the MARKET?Pls indicate names, fields of market and REASONS(topic start page 4) OPEN
I realize in market wood prices are still high even after some people predicted dropping prices after contest ends.
But what I see happening now is that large corporations which make tones of cash selling wardrobes and such are not willing to change their prices. We all know for fact that they make tones of cash from the wood we sell. But why not share a little bit of the profit?
I have been looking for contracts for my q5 wood and guess what? Every serious buyer is quoting the same ridicules price of 37+0.5*Q.
The cheapest price for Q5 wood in market after taxes is 45. But because of the large companies
WHICH Syndicates are Controlling the MARKET?name and REASONS
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Guest
WHICH Syndicates are Controlling the MARKET?name and REASONS
Last edited by Guest on 08.06.2007, 18:21, edited 9 times in total.
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Guest
what did the contest have to do with the wood price is something that eludes me completly.
apart from that you have this button called Build, if you press it it will show you 8 places where you can build this things called Joinerys, you can press it again and build some other thing called Furniture Store, then you can make Wardrobes and stop complaining about what ppl are willing to spend on wood and become a consumer of wood yourself.
apart from that you have this button called Build, if you press it it will show you 8 places where you can build this things called Joinerys, you can press it again and build some other thing called Furniture Store, then you can make Wardrobes and stop complaining about what ppl are willing to spend on wood and become a consumer of wood yourself.
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Guest
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Guest
That is how the market works.
If basic product become cheaper people stop making them and start using them to make more money. Then as there are less people making basic products their prices go up. From what I see wood is a very unstable buissness as it's needed in big amounts for the end product.
Few days ago we had more people needing wood than making so the prices went up. When people noticed those prces they started making wood themselves (me for example) and now the prices are going down because supply is much higher than the demand.
If basic product become cheaper people stop making them and start using them to make more money. Then as there are less people making basic products their prices go up. From what I see wood is a very unstable buissness as it's needed in big amounts for the end product.
Few days ago we had more people needing wood than making so the prices went up. When people noticed those prces they started making wood themselves (me for example) and now the prices are going down because supply is much higher than the demand.
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Guest
Wood prices....
I do agree that 50caps for q0 wood is way too expansive. But who here disagrees that the large corporations are not intune with market prices and thus deny high quality wood suppliers with high rate of production the benifits of such a spike in market price.
The main reason why we sell large corporations is that they are the people buying the high quality wood and if we dont sell them we are gonna have a few days of unproduction.
Raw material prices are going up (example water and power). Maybe its time the end users who produce wardrobe and tables increase their prices in order to let the market grow.
Expansion corps
Cash: 12,219.69
The main reason why we sell large corporations is that they are the people buying the high quality wood and if we dont sell them we are gonna have a few days of unproduction.
Raw material prices are going up (example water and power). Maybe its time the end users who produce wardrobe and tables increase their prices in order to let the market grow.
Expansion corps
Cash: 12,219.69
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Guest
there is only 2 ways for a wood price increase
1- supply drops due to low returns of planting wood
2- demand increase due to profitability of end products that need wood
asking big companies to increase the price that they pay for wood isnt going to do nothing to the supply/demand, ppl will still undercut each other when selling the wood.
and all those companies that send faxes keep a very close eye on what is going on in the market prices, if they didnt they wouldnt be big companies.
1- supply drops due to low returns of planting wood
2- demand increase due to profitability of end products that need wood
asking big companies to increase the price that they pay for wood isnt going to do nothing to the supply/demand, ppl will still undercut each other when selling the wood.
and all those companies that send faxes keep a very close eye on what is going on in the market prices, if they didnt they wouldnt be big companies.
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Guest
This is the way free market works. Supply and demand.
You can avoid that by finding a reliable trade partner that would buy wood from you for the same price.
Sometimes the price would go up and he would be glad that he has a cheaper source and sometimes (like now) the prices would go down and then you are glad that you can sell your wood for a prper price.
This way both of you have steady income. There is no time when your income drops for few days and slows down your companiy's growth.
You can avoid that by finding a reliable trade partner that would buy wood from you for the same price.
Sometimes the price would go up and he would be glad that he has a cheaper source and sometimes (like now) the prices would go down and then you are glad that you can sell your wood for a prper price.
This way both of you have steady income. There is no time when your income drops for few days and slows down your companiy's growth.
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Guest
that sounds like one of the most boring things you can do in a economic game like this, wheres the fun in playing in a sandbox where prices dont change?Catch_or wrote:This is the way free market works. Supply and demand.
You can avoid that by finding a reliable trade partner that would buy wood from you for the same price.
Sometimes the price would go up and he would be glad that he has a cheaper source and sometimes (like now) the prices would go down and then you are glad that you can sell your wood for a prper price.
This way both of you have steady income. There is no time when your income drops for few days and slows down your companiy's growth.
btw, my main business is selling wood, so i also think prices should go up
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Guest
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Guest
I just realised that I was acting like a big company from your description.
I have a 2 day supply of almost everything I need. I do this so I don't have to buy power at 0,09 when it's the lowest price. I do this with all my resources and I just realised I have a small fortune in my warehouse, a fortune which I could invest in something
Back on topic.
The big companies do you a favor for setting wood price at 37. The smaller ones on the fax buy it for 30 or less.
Yes, you can sell it on the marketplace but you have to pay 10% and this makes your price higher. Those big companies don't lower the prices, they keep the minimum level of them. How is that? Well if someone sells wood for less than 37 someone instaintly buys it and sells to the big company that pays 37. You can still make more than 37 but you need to be patient.
I myself sell about 10% of my wood (yes, I make wood as well) on the marketplace where it lies for 10-30h and sell everything else instaintly.
The thing I like the most about big companies is that they are usualy very active. Most of the time when I send a contract I don't have to wait more than 10 minutes to get the cash.
I have a 2 day supply of almost everything I need. I do this so I don't have to buy power at 0,09 when it's the lowest price. I do this with all my resources and I just realised I have a small fortune in my warehouse, a fortune which I could invest in something
Back on topic.
The big companies do you a favor for setting wood price at 37. The smaller ones on the fax buy it for 30 or less.
Yes, you can sell it on the marketplace but you have to pay 10% and this makes your price higher. Those big companies don't lower the prices, they keep the minimum level of them. How is that? Well if someone sells wood for less than 37 someone instaintly buys it and sells to the big company that pays 37. You can still make more than 37 but you need to be patient.
I myself sell about 10% of my wood (yes, I make wood as well) on the marketplace where it lies for 10-30h and sell everything else instaintly.
The thing I like the most about big companies is that they are usualy very active. Most of the time when I send a contract I don't have to wait more than 10 minutes to get the cash.
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Guest
I can see both sides of the argument, but in general I agree that some of the prices being asked by big companies are ridiculous.
One contacted me today asking if I would be a supplier of coal and iron. I replied asking what price he would pay and he replied 7.
Now the normal price for coal/iron is about 11 on the market, so less 10% thats still 9.9. Why on earth would I sell for 7?
Stones is another example, I know if I place stones on the market for 12.5 they will sell within an hour. Thats 11.25 after commission. Yet I see faxes asking for stones for 9 or 10. Why would people sell at that price?
Power is another good example, normal price 0.08, if I put 1 mil power on the market at 0.07 it sells within 10 minutes. Thats 0.063 after commission. Yet all the faxes asking for power say 0.05. Again my question is why sell at that price?
Ok so the big companies are big for a reason which is that they know what they are doing, but I for one wont sell to someone just because they are big if they are not being fair. Some arent even reliable with contracts. I make oil when I dont need more water, and I have had contracts with big companies sit there for 2 days before I eventually cancel and put it on the market.
Its all part of the game but I think you need to be careful and watch the markets and who you are dealing with. If the big companies are being unfair, dont trade with them.
One contacted me today asking if I would be a supplier of coal and iron. I replied asking what price he would pay and he replied 7.
Now the normal price for coal/iron is about 11 on the market, so less 10% thats still 9.9. Why on earth would I sell for 7?
Stones is another example, I know if I place stones on the market for 12.5 they will sell within an hour. Thats 11.25 after commission. Yet I see faxes asking for stones for 9 or 10. Why would people sell at that price?
Power is another good example, normal price 0.08, if I put 1 mil power on the market at 0.07 it sells within 10 minutes. Thats 0.063 after commission. Yet all the faxes asking for power say 0.05. Again my question is why sell at that price?
Ok so the big companies are big for a reason which is that they know what they are doing, but I for one wont sell to someone just because they are big if they are not being fair. Some arent even reliable with contracts. I make oil when I dont need more water, and I have had contracts with big companies sit there for 2 days before I eventually cancel and put it on the market.
Its all part of the game but I think you need to be careful and watch the markets and who you are dealing with. If the big companies are being unfair, dont trade with them.
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Guest
Well that's what you get for selling to people who aren't me.Some arent even reliable with contracts. I make oil when I dont need more water, and I have had contracts with big companies sit there for 2 days before I eventually cancel and put it on the market.
I figure it's like those guys who stand on the street corner and yell "hey baby, gimme your number!" to any girl who walks past. Sure, it never works. But hey, maybe someday it will!One contacted me today asking if I would be a supplier of coal and iron. I replied asking what price he would pay and he replied 7.
Now the normal price for coal/iron is about 11 on the market, so less 10% thats still 9.9. Why on earth would I sell for 7?
Actually, lest I bring down scrutiny upon myself, let me make a small defense of those too-low offers:
Firstly, sometimes you really don't care if you get the product or not. For example, my standing offer in the buy forum for cattle is 48 at q0. Now if you've ever read ... pretty much anything I've written ... you know that I tell people not to sell cattle at 48. But hey, if they insist ...
And then secondly, prices do change. About a month ago, Coal was selling for around 8.50. So laying out an offer in that neighborhood, if long-standing, isn't that crazy. (Though this doesn't apply to new requests like the ones you got.)
As a corollary, for safety it may also be better to stay on the low side just a touch. Because the market can move back down. Then everyone else takes one giant step backwards, and suddenly you're the highest bidder - which you don't realize until 5 million kg of coal show up at your doorstep wiht payment due.
Stranger still, sometimes they get it. Go figure.Power is another good example, normal price 0.08, if I put 1 mil power on the market at 0.07 it sells within 10 minutes. Thats 0.063 after commission. Yet all the faxes asking for power say 0.05.
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Guest
This is a good post. I am glad to see people talking about this issue.
My opinion, for what it is worth, is the 36 + Q is stll a fairly generous offer. Could the big companies afford more and still make a good profit? Sure. Can small companies make money building wardrobes at that price? Not really. If they could, you would build joineries.
The big guys need raw materials producers. Material producers need the big guys. This lends itself to a balance of power - if either gets too grumpy, they stop playing.
*ajanmax - could you be making wood of that Q without the help of a "big guy"? (I am in the same boat. Anyone want to buy my wood Q5 at last weeks prices?)
The answer is no. This is because of the effects of high level research. In the end, that is the only advantage "big guys" have. If you pay attention, everything else is stacked against them.
The wood market reached the prices it did because of a "cheating" incident which removed all wood from the market. The big guys bought in a panic because they needed to keep their joineries working and buildings expanding. More producers went into the game looking for those high profits. The big guys have probably started stabilizing their warehouse stocks. The price has started to go down.
Still, you will notice it is not even approaching the price of 22+Q that was offered before. I imagine it will drop a little more - I figure around 32+Q is where it will settle, this time. If this seems unfair, go look at the ROI's for wood at 32+Q and compare it to your other options - the big guys sure do, and they are betting that over time they will get enough suppliers who are willing that they can ask that price.
Still, is it "fair"? Not really. Economics is not about fair.
A text book definition of economics: "The study of decision making in conditions of scarcity."
It is about finding what is scarce, and making a buck on it.
- Capi
Edited - Spelling. So shoot me.
My opinion, for what it is worth, is the 36 + Q is stll a fairly generous offer. Could the big companies afford more and still make a good profit? Sure. Can small companies make money building wardrobes at that price? Not really. If they could, you would build joineries.
The big guys need raw materials producers. Material producers need the big guys. This lends itself to a balance of power - if either gets too grumpy, they stop playing.
*ajanmax - could you be making wood of that Q without the help of a "big guy"? (I am in the same boat. Anyone want to buy my wood Q5 at last weeks prices?)
The answer is no. This is because of the effects of high level research. In the end, that is the only advantage "big guys" have. If you pay attention, everything else is stacked against them.
The wood market reached the prices it did because of a "cheating" incident which removed all wood from the market. The big guys bought in a panic because they needed to keep their joineries working and buildings expanding. More producers went into the game looking for those high profits. The big guys have probably started stabilizing their warehouse stocks. The price has started to go down.
Still, you will notice it is not even approaching the price of 22+Q that was offered before. I imagine it will drop a little more - I figure around 32+Q is where it will settle, this time. If this seems unfair, go look at the ROI's for wood at 32+Q and compare it to your other options - the big guys sure do, and they are betting that over time they will get enough suppliers who are willing that they can ask that price.
Still, is it "fair"? Not really. Economics is not about fair.
A text book definition of economics: "The study of decision making in conditions of scarcity."
It is about finding what is scarce, and making a buck on it.
- Capi
Edited - Spelling. So shoot me.
Last edited by Guest on 03.06.2007, 18:44, edited 2 times in total.
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Guest
respect Capitalis, high quality article!
My vision is: in every contract there is a person exploiting and another being exploited, you just have to see that you'r in the first category or realising at least that you'r in second category and getting out of it asap which is not always that obvious, as a starting player it can be better to be in the last category because you don't have a choice by lack of capital
The ability to research will only make the gap bigger, the reason is twofolded:
Big companies can purchase their materials for a higher price; (they still make good profit with high Q) which in turn will provide an incentive for the producers of raw materials to produce even more.
On the other hand, prices for raw materials go up, so players who are not in a finished-good-industry yet will be forced to stay out of it, just because of the prices! They need a certain level of research first before they can start earning something on their production, meanwhile average quality in stores goes up and ppl are willing to spend less and less bucks on poor quality goods...
Conclusion: big companies do not only purchase for higher prices because they can afford it, but also to eliminate potential competitors!!
(players producing the whole cycle by themselves and thinking that they make good money on finished goods are partly on the underdog's side of this story, they only don't realize it)
My vision is: in every contract there is a person exploiting and another being exploited, you just have to see that you'r in the first category or realising at least that you'r in second category and getting out of it asap which is not always that obvious, as a starting player it can be better to be in the last category because you don't have a choice by lack of capital
The ability to research will only make the gap bigger, the reason is twofolded:
Big companies can purchase their materials for a higher price; (they still make good profit with high Q) which in turn will provide an incentive for the producers of raw materials to produce even more.
On the other hand, prices for raw materials go up, so players who are not in a finished-good-industry yet will be forced to stay out of it, just because of the prices! They need a certain level of research first before they can start earning something on their production, meanwhile average quality in stores goes up and ppl are willing to spend less and less bucks on poor quality goods...
Conclusion: big companies do not only purchase for higher prices because they can afford it, but also to eliminate potential competitors!!
(players producing the whole cycle by themselves and thinking that they make good money on finished goods are partly on the underdog's side of this story, they only don't realize it)