Privatization - A Viable Solution?

Ideas how the game could be improved and suggestions for subsequent versions of the game. (this is just a space for ideas! We can't guarantee suggestions will be implemented!)

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
Guest

Privatization - A Viable Solution?

Post by Guest » 22.11.2010, 07:55

While I was amusing myself wondering which mod run Raw LLC on the side I asked myself why not privatize the NPC? I dont mean remove it, im just proposing the ability to move large amount of productive space into the hands of players. Again I stress, this will not 'remove' or 'alter' the NPC in any way.

To put it in its most simple terms, since the NPC posts no profits and no sales data it must belong to the shadowy bureaucratic world of State Owned Enterprise. So why not sell up? It takes nearly no programing effort and very little effort by anybody on the upjers team. To effect this an auction of a limited number of power-plants will take place with the highest bidders receiving a pre-built plant. This process repeats untill we reach something approaching power independence.

This will take out three birds with one stone, reducing your dependence on the NPC, long term reducing prices of power, that reduction will open up a few more industries that were killed off by raw material prices eating their margins.

Thoughts?
H
Last edited by Guest on 26.11.2010, 22:44, edited 1 time in total.

Guest

Post by Guest » 22.11.2010, 08:18

Yes, I have thoughts about this topic. :D

1) This seems to be a suggestion so I moved it into the adequate board-section. ;)

2) I am somehow surprised that you know how much or little effort would be needed to remove the NPC and start such "auctions" with fully built buildings.

3) The NPC-system will not be changed; it will not be removed or privatised.
The NPC is there to grant a constant supply of raw materials at fair prices. If it would be somehow removed prices would go insane (especially for steel) and everything would become more and more expensive, especially expansions. And here new players would be confronted with great disadvantages as they do not have the cash to pay higher prices.
Additionally removing the NPC would not cause "reviving" or "reopening" of different branches of trade as the prices would raise and raise...

4) You are talking about "privatising" the NPC and then just want to hand out power plants? Hmm... it seems that you are missing several industries. ;)
Bye the way... dependence on the NPC is not a problem at all. And your idea seems to cause another kind of dependence which would not make it better than now.

5) Thanks for your idea anyways. :)

Guest

Post by Guest » 22.11.2010, 09:06

1. I put this in the general area for one very simple reason, I do not think that this is complete. It requires far more thought and debate on the far reaching effects of any sale of built plants and thus im looking for input. ergo....please return it.

2. In response to your sarcasm, No I have very little comprehension of the intricacies of how the programing that fuels the game works but I do know that pearlbay's Q was increased to 255 then fixed very quickly, not perhaps in the same vein but this idea is orders of magnitude easier to implement than most of the ideas that float around here.

3. Never did I suggest that the NPC be removed or its production/sales ability impaired in any way. Both mods have made it clear for years that change in this area is taboo so im trying to find ways to work within the system not revove it. I propabaly should have been more specific in that regard ill move to correct it to prevent you making that error again.

4. Sadly the other raw materials will not be effected by this type of action anywhere near as much as power, a Well auction for example will have to satisfy oil demand to a point where water and oil are equally profitable before effecting the target of water. Its possible but will most probably do damage to other areas despite the positive impact in the long term.

"'by' the way" the reasons for achieving raw material independence are as follows....
1. Prices are still and will always be artificially limited by the NPC, this absolutely demolishes any dynamism in the market. Basically im more and more un-entertained. I can now use .27 as a base cost for everything since its the normal cost. It makes power production even more boring since there is no market fluctuation.
2. Massive over-dependence has fueled the rise of the wardrobe and others where they SHOULD NOT EXIST. No country should be able to rely on absolute supply, I refer to the Bread Mountain, Wine Lake issue this is our wardrobe.
3. Continuing point 1 we enter a market each and every day with no risk! Thats what enterprise is and what entertainment is, its the risk of a bad week of power prices droping profits and thus adapting is part of the fun. Ensure that prices never change and what you get out at the end is a unchanging game and a poor responce, and that I do know!
4. The depandance we have now means that any effort in the future to move to a free and unregulated economy without the massive restrictions that are imposed on all areas on teh game by the NPC then the huge depancance on the NPC itself will be near insurmountable.
5. An economy is suposed to grow within its means not leap ahead with no limits


I hope I cleared that up for you so we can get a few constructive comments going.
My 2c
H

Guest

Post by Guest » 26.11.2010, 08:34

I always wanted to see the NPCs removed from the market but it is too late for every single existing realm at this time. NPCs are like caffeine. The longer the realm is up, the more the realm gets addicted to (or relies on) the NPC. Like we all know, everybody relies on the NPC and the removal of the NPC will cause the realm to crash due to withdrawal without a suitable replacement to cover the massive demand.

The only way to 'safely' remove the NPC is to never put the NPC in. I recommend we instead get a 'hard-core' realm for Realm 3 where there is no NPC from the very start. This will force the community to be extremely careful in the beginning and prevent any such reliance in the first place (people who still rely on the NPC will crash in the beginning and might have to restart their accounts until they finally adapt).

A power plant, well, plantation, factory, and mine would need to be built by the first players. No plantation, factory, or mine would mean no more new buildings and without proper balance of power plants and wells, it can still fall apart. If one of these roots go extinct, the realm's economy will grind to a halt as it waits for building materials to rebuild the missing branch. It definitely sounds very fun if you ask me and I would definitely join the fun if such a realm ever exists after my long hiatus.

Guest

Post by Guest » 28.11.2010, 17:50

Whenever I see this kind of idea, I remember when I first started and how hard it was to get anywhere at all. Were it not for a very helpful player taking pity on me, (I miss you, uGenix) I likely would have quit long ago.

I think players who have been around a long time forget what it was like to start out. It can be hugely dissappointing to see how large some of the players here are. If you told me that some of them own the government too, I would think this was as corrupt as real life, and never want to play. What would be the point? Every aspect of the game would be controlled by the oldest, richest players. Hence, there is no "game".

Just once, can't you ancient dinosaurs leave well enough alone? The game has done quite well as is.

Of course, having said that, I do think that a realm with no NPC would be interesting to see. As stated above, leaving out in the first place would be the way to get it done.

When I left Marine bootcamp a couple of decades ago, One of my DI's said: "Remember, if you aren't pissed off every day, someone else is not doing their job." Not sure why, but it feels appropriate here. :?

Guest

Post by Guest » 30.11.2010, 11:36

Wow, people still miss the point of this.
Its not to remove the NPC! At all.....in any way....not even a little bit!
Its to get some serious production in the raw material industries, thats it. Im not suggesting we remove the NPC or alter the way the game works. Its just that there is no current way to force the market to correct itself using the usual market forces because of the restrictions on the game.

Ill reiterate: Its simply allow players to buy pre-built power plants. Nothing else
So it increase the volume of player produced power entering the market and thus lowering the price thsu helping everybody!
H

Guest

Post by Guest » 30.11.2010, 18:10

Horizon Holdings wrote:Ill reiterate: Its simply allow players to buy pre-built power plants. Nothing else
So it increase the volume of player produced power entering the market and thus lowering the price thsu helping everybody!
H
Horizon,

do you only mean PP, or also wells and mines and even plantations (wood) that would be where trouble would start.

I have not really yet looked through knolls calculations of how to include building expansion costs so I still wonder if 0.27 for power or water are really profitable or just a way to keep losses low.

I never calcualted really how much it costs to produce this & that - just a rough one with npc-raw-material-prices which results are only covering production costs - costs of the buildings are not yet included. So I think that oil can be (if the market situation allows it) more profitable than water ever could be - especially high-q.

Dopamin

Guest

Post by Guest » 01.12.2010, 21:58

Horizon Holdings wrote:
4. Sadly the other raw materials will not be effected by this type of action anywhere near as much as power, a Well auction for example will have to satisfy oil demand to a point where water and oil are equally profitable before effecting the target of water. Its possible, but will most probably do damage to other areas despite the positive impact in the long term.
H
Oil will always be more profitable than water at high Q, it must be. Within the structure of the game water should only be produced by small start up players until their oil Q surpasses water. The demand for Q0 oil however and oil in general has removed even that.
H

Post Reply