Steel

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Steel

Post by Guest » 27.04.2008, 16:08

Im must ask you all: How come you people buy steel for more then 135c each when NPC sell at 135??
I see ppl selling steel for 135-145 and ppl who are buying it!! Come one, lets not buy from other people unless the price is lower then 135, forcing steel producers to lower their prices.

Guest

Post by Guest » 27.04.2008, 17:44

Do you have any idea how much it cost to produce steel? Even if you make all your own Iron, Coal, Chemicals, and Power it would be too expensive to go too far below 135.00. And that's IF you make your own. The problem is that the admins set the stell NPC price too high, making it near impossible for steel producers to make a good profit. This is my take on the whole thing, but I'm just a power producer so I very well may be wrong.

Guest

Post by Guest » 27.04.2008, 17:49

You mean the NPC steel price too low don't you?

Guest

Post by Guest » 27.04.2008, 18:35

Stash wrote:You mean the NPC steel price too low don't you?
Yeah, sorry.

Guest

Post by Guest » 27.04.2008, 18:51

Eleknar wrote:Do you have any idea how much it cost to produce steel? Even if you make all your own Iron, Coal, Chemicals, and Power it would be too expensive to go too far below 135.00. And that's IF you make your own. The problem is that the admins set the stell NPC price too high, making it near impossible for steel producers to make a good profit. This is my take on the whole thing, but I'm just a power producer so I very well may be wrong.

So you are suggesting that people should buy steel for MORE then 135 when NPC sells for 135?
Thats not the actions of a healthy company.

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Post by felixbluindustries » 27.04.2008, 20:24

Ummm i make steel in realm 1 and so i think ill be fine to post here...seeing as the realsm are practically the saame, my steel costs 22caps a unit to make, i sell at 134 caps a unit thats 112caps profit per steel... we arent making a lose... we're making a killing :P the only bad thing which turns people offmaking steel is the time it takes... like jebus christ coal takes 36hours to make 5000 of it, 12hours for 2000 iron, chemiclas iv got a supplier for but trust me making it is very hard, and then youve gotta wait 56hours+ to trn all these products into 1000 steel,costing you 22k and roughly 92hours for 112k profit... ofc thats why iv expanded my buildings :)... i hate the market though the NPC rcei is set way to low in my opinion, set it to 150 and let the market have some freedom... liek with power, the NPC is 2700% of what it costs to make power yet for steel its only 600% which isnt much :/
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Guest

Post by Guest » 28.04.2008, 04:03

Don Corleone wrote:
Eleknar wrote:Do you have any idea how much it cost to produce steel? Even if you make all your own Iron, Coal, Chemicals, and Power it would be too expensive to go too far below 135.00. And that's IF you make your own. The problem is that the admins set the stell NPC price too high, making it near impossible for steel producers to make a good profit. This is my take on the whole thing, but I'm just a power producer so I very well may be wrong.

So you are suggesting that people should buy steel for MORE then 135 when NPC sells for 135?
Thats not the actions of a healthy company.
Uhhh, no. I wasn't "suggesting" anything. I was simply stating that the steel NPC sells for too low. I rarely ever see steel for below 134.5 on the market and even that's rare in my experience. I was simply saying that if the NPC prices were 2 or 3 caps more it would be easier to purchase better priced steel.

Guest

Post by Guest » 28.04.2008, 06:48

I rarely ever see steel for below 134.5 on the market
That's because it's stupid if you think of the -10% market fees.

Finding a company who would buy it for 134 Caps is very, very easy and sending him a contract is cheaper than sending it to the market (-13.4 Caps cheaper for each piece of steel!)

So there isn't really a steel market like other products. Steel is a contract product with no Supply and Demand-Influences.

Guest

Post by Guest » 28.04.2008, 07:30

Eleknar wrote:
Don Corleone wrote:
Eleknar wrote:Do you have any idea how much it cost to produce steel? Even if you make all your own Iron, Coal, Chemicals, and Power it would be too expensive to go too far below 135.00. And that's IF you make your own. The problem is that the admins set the stell NPC price too high, making it near impossible for steel producers to make a good profit. This is my take on the whole thing, but I'm just a power producer so I very well may be wrong.

So you are suggesting that people should buy steel for MORE then 135 when NPC sells for 135?
Thats not the actions of a healthy company.
Uhhh, no. I wasn't "suggesting" anything. I was simply stating that the steel NPC sells for too low. I rarely ever see steel for below 134.5 on the market and even that's rare in my experience. I was simply saying that if the NPC prices were 2 or 3 caps more it would be easier to purchase better priced steel.
Perhaps you are right, the NPC price is to low, but my point was that people are pretty stupid when they buy steel for more then 135. I hope you can agree with that.

Guest

Post by Guest » 28.04.2008, 08:01

Perhaps you are right, the NPC price is to low, but my point was that people are pretty stupid when they buy steel for more then 135. I hope you can agree with that.
Yes, BUT also the people you offer steel over 135 are stupid. Not only because no-one should actually be buying their steel, but also because offering steel on the market at 140 Caps is like sending a contract at 126 Caps. So instead of winning, you lose 8 Caps profit for each piece of steel you send to the market for 140 instead of sending it for 134 to a specific company.

Guest

Post by Guest » 28.04.2008, 11:19

Stash wrote:Yes, BUT also the people you offer steel over 135 are stupid. Not only because no-one should actually be buying their steel, but also because offering steel on the market at 140 Caps is like sending a contract at 126 Caps. So instead of winning, you lose 8 Caps profit for each piece of steel you send to the market for 140 instead of sending it for 134 to a specific company.
What he said ^

Guest

Post by Guest » 28.04.2008, 12:00

Actually, the guy that said that there is a big profit in steel production clearly does not understand basic business principles :)

What you refer to as "Production cost" is not really the true value of your production. Sure, if you create Iron ore, Coal and Chems yourself, then your warehouse will show a steel "production cost" of around 30-40...

However, the true "cost" of steel has to be based on market prices for the raw materials. Because otherwise, you could simply sell the raw materials and make more profit.

An example:

You produce Iron Ore for 3c per piece, market price is 10c
You produce Coal for 3c per piece, market price is 10c
You produce Chemicals for 6c (assuming you produce minerals yourself, too), market price is around 20c

Now, your warehouse shows as steel price: 2x 3c + 5x 3c + 0.5+ 6c + 200x 0.06c (power) = 6c+15c+3c+12c=36c.

But if you sold all the ingredients yourself, you could make

2x 10c + 5x 10c + 0.5x 20c + 200x 0.06c (power) = 20c+50c+10c+12c = 92c.

This is the TRUE product cost of your steel production and lowers the "profit" per steel from 134-36c = 98c to 134-92c = 42c.

Now if you do your calculations, you will probably find out yourself that if you sell all your factories and build equally sized mines instead (or produce chemicals in some of the factories), you make more money selling the ingredients at the current market rates than with steel.

The NPC price is definitely NOT too high. It is there to ensure that everyone can expand. The only way to make money with steel is to produce higher qualities for those guys that produce Wardrobes, Chairs, Beds, and so on.

Just my 2c :)

Soc

Guest

Post by Guest » 28.04.2008, 12:08

The only way to make money with steel is to produce higher qualities for those guys that produce Wardrobes, Chairs, Beds, and so on.
Chairs don't need steel (Being a smart-arse).

But I get your point. ;)

Guest

Post by Guest » 29.04.2008, 01:00

personally i dont produce steel for just the profit i produce it to help everyone expand and to help myself expand as well...
i build all my own from the ground up including wood for expansion as well as stones... the profit isnt that great but it helps me out alot

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Post by felixbluindustries » 03.05.2008, 13:07

Socronoss wrote:Actually, the guy that said that there is a big profit in steel production clearly does not understand basic business principles :)

What you refer to as "Production cost" is not really the true value of your production. Sure, if you create Iron ore, Coal and Chems yourself, then your warehouse will show a steel "production cost" of around 30-40...

However, the true "cost" of steel has to be based on market prices for the raw materials. Because otherwise, you could simply sell the raw materials and make more profit.

An example:

You produce Iron Ore for 3c per piece, market price is 10c
You produce Coal for 3c per piece, market price is 10c
You produce Chemicals for 6c (assuming you produce minerals yourself, too), market price is around 20c

Now, your warehouse shows as steel price: 2x 3c + 5x 3c + 0.5+ 6c + 200x 0.06c (power) = 6c+15c+3c+12c=36c.

But if you sold all the ingredients yourself, you could make

2x 10c + 5x 10c + 0.5x 20c + 200x 0.06c (power) = 20c+50c+10c+12c = 92c.

This is the TRUE product cost of your steel production and lowers the "profit" per steel from 134-36c = 98c to 134-92c = 42c.

Now if you do your calculations, you will probably find out yourself that if you sell all your factories and build equally sized mines instead (or produce chemicals in some of the factories), you make more money selling the ingredients at the current market rates than with steel.

The NPC price is definitely NOT too high. It is there to ensure that everyone can expand. The only way to make money with steel is to produce higher qualities for those guys that produce Wardrobes, Chairs, Beds, and so on.

Just my 2c :)

Soc
the problem with that maths is who buys the coal and iron ores??? very few people do ive triedd it before... you go true price this and that and i see where your coming from but the only people who are intrested in coal iron and possibly chemicals are steel producers, meaning that if you try to sell all your products for their "true" value you will get little to no intrest. Thats why people make steel, how many faxes are there with people buying steel in them atm? quite a few, how many to buy iron and coal... none. Thats why i believe all this true price stuff is nonsense.

Even if you did put your coal and iron on the market you would have to take 10% off its total price anyway as no-one would really buy via contract, therefore you get less and less money. thats why i think its a bit dumb to just try and sell iron and coal unless someone is looking to buy large amounts, if anyone is feel free to mail me in realm 1...realm 2 its not going so well :P
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